How to reverse grey hair


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By stefanovic - 8/27/2014 6:40:54 AM
Has anyone tried Solaray S.O.D. 2000 Plus? It seems to have rather positive reviews on amazon.

@pseudocatalase: I think the melitane makes a huge difference, I just couldn't continue my experiment with melitane only as I ran out of product.
By ajanthony - 4/20/2014 5:59:35 PM
Good stuff, good advice.
By StarGazer2 - 2/10/2012 5:37:51 PM
Nice try, raveena. 

Your profile shows you've only had 2 visits to this forum (1 of which was to post your spam promotion).  Now, if you've been reading all the posts for so long as you claim, why do you only have 2 visits?

Hogwash.
By Señorgringo - 8/30/2013 1:19:02 PM
dave (8/27/2013)
I have probably been using close to 10 weeks as well, no results for me  either. My hair s white so I thinking MAYBE it might take longer?? I am starting to get discouraged I would have tought someone by now would say that it really works.


It makes no difference and we should not start making excuses. Based on the science posted gray hair should be reversed - period. It may take shorter or longer based on various factors (we are not aware of) but the instructions quote 12 weeks as when one should start seeing results. If not then the product does not work as advertised.

It's typical human behavior to fall prey to the 'sunk cost effect' - it's something we traders are very aware of (if we want to survive more than a few months). You spend money, time, and effort on something and you really want it to work so badly that you start making excuses. We must remind ourselves of the information that was posted and hold Viaguard to it. If that's even possible - they have not given us any indication that they acting in good faith or have they acted professionally on Amazon (i.e. deleting reviews, changing the product description constantly, not responding to inquiries, etc.).

Unfortunately the odds at this point support that it's a big fat scam and that they never properly tested their product before they started selling it. I sincerely hope that there's nothing in the product that may expose us to long term health risks. I looked up the company's address and it's looks like a little hole in the wall in the middle of nowhere - some small joint in a strip mall style building. Probably not the professional scientific laboratory we would have imagined.

Shysters everywhere... it's saddening sometimes how little honesty and professionalism exists out there.
By Pseudocatalase - 12/3/2013 10:43:05 AM
@Ladd, directly comparing UVB narrowband to sun exposure is difficult. The UVB wand only spreads over a few nm of the damaging UV spectrum, whereas solar exposure will have about 100 times more sunlight to achieve the same effect in the critical bandwidth necessary. I think you can get a greater relevant dose with UVB than you would even achieve with a sunburn with normal solar exposure. The UVB lamps are much safer than trying to achieve the same effects with sunlight.

Recommended dosing is 10 minutes 2-3 times a week. 

I agree that the non-H2O2 pathways offer substantial other opportunities to treat gray hair. A product called "Latisse" has been used off-target for pigment restoration with some success (no guarantee on safety, though). It activates prostaglandin pathways more relevant to the cortisol pathway and works topically. The MC1 receptor agonists will directly signal the pigment restoration pathways (instead of blocking the H2O2 pigment-loss pathways), and have great potential, but thus far are not safety tested and have not been shown to work topically. However, the peptides can be custom ordered and you can experiment on yourself (and take FULL responsiblity for the risks - I am not advocating these approaches as safe for ANYONE). There are reports of bodybuilders using them for fake tans for competition by performing subcutaneous injections. 

Pseudocatalase has a 15+ year track record in thousands of subjects with no noticeable side or off-target effects, and its ingredients, when properly formulated, fall below the FDA regulated limits. 
By troppo - 7/16/2014 7:16:12 PM
Actually, a bodybuilder friend of took TB4 for a shoulder injury (it is anti-inflammatory) and it turned his ginger hair darker (he had some grays and he said it got rid of maybe 25% of them) besides some regrowth.  There are quite a few studies out there that speak to its efficacy for hair growth and hair darkening.

By DDye - 2/23/2014 7:05:39 AM
hi Zeno,

Your request has been forwarded to Life Extension's Product Development Department.

D Dye
Moderator
By ajanthony - 2/24/2014 6:30:24 PM
Ironically, Dr. Al Sears talks about using amino acids to naturally increase Hgh levels in the body. He talks about using them after workouts to naturally keep your levels high.  Specifically he says to use l-glutamine, l-lysine, and l-arginine.  I add them to whey protein isolate which is extremely high in tyrosine.  In addition I have supplemented it further with beta alanine and l-citrulline.  I take a certain measured formulation 2 times per day.  Whey protein is the highest biologically available protein source and the trove of all the amino acids is unbeatable.  Just be careful when purchasing to find the whey isolate that is not artificially sweetened with aspartame or sucralose, bad stuff.  Protein is what your hair is made of, and the article about tyrosine is very informative and have heard this relationship with grey hair many times.  Just heard to take tyrosine before bed but not a fan of taking amino acids separately.

  Going back to the baking soda theme.  Rea and article about reducing hydrogen peroxide levels in the body, and one way was to take a tablespoon of baking soda and and some water and work it around your mouth for as long as you can handle it within reason, 3-5 minutes, then spit it out.  It is supposed to help alkalize the body.  Makes sense because it can also be used as an antacid.  I still think it would make a lot of sense by applying it topically to the hair before a shower, mixing it with some sort of cream and keeping it on the scalp for about 5 minutes...
By Pseudocatalase - 9/23/2013 9:48:58 AM
brm, if you are not in the USA and interested, email pseudocatalase@gmail.com. I cannot guarantee I can help, but I can see what I can do. 

@machineghost, your questions are very insightful. Your skin epithelium has two types of cells, the keratinocytes and melanocytes. The keratinocytes produce hydrogen peroxide, and use it in an immune capacity. They kill bacteria with it. The amount of hydrogen peroxide around will vary. in people with vitiligo, the levels get quite high. Melanocytes are very sensitive to hydrogen peroxide. Even small amounts can trigger a cell death pathway because of the biochemical pathways that convert phenylalanine to tyrosine (precursor to making melanins). The natural defense against this sensitivity is catalase. A secondary backup is glutathione. It is very difficult to augment natural catalase levels. The enzyme is a large heme-containing protein with essentially zero chance of penetrating the epithelium, and there are no known oral supplements that can raise it. Glutathione supplementation can work but has not proven very effective (you would need to take N-acetyl-cysteine). The pseudocatalase penetrates well enough to disproportionate the hydrogen peroxide in the skin, which relieves the stress on the melanocytes. 

In age-related graying, certainly the natural catalase levels are relevant. But the melanocyte stem cells also respond to stress related chemicals (corticosteroids). These will cause the melanocyte stem cell to differentiate into a melanocyte, and leave no stem cells behind. Ultimately that hair follicle will go white. There is a natural replenishment of melanocyte stem cells in the hair follicles, from other stem cell types in the peripheral nerve sheaths. These, however, appear to take a long time (months) to replenish. In aging, the corticosteroid levels will rise, the hydrogen peroxide production of the keratinocytes will rise, and the rate of replenishment will go down. All factors conspire to make hair go gray. Pseudocatalase only impacts the hydrogen peroxide factor. 

Hope this helps, it is our current understanding of this issue.
By EN8686 - 5/30/2014 3:19:50 PM
Ladd (5/30/2014)
@EN8686

I think this is a much fairer assessment.

I would offer one thing: Including myself, you, stefanovic, and apparently "Dave" there are four people who've reported results. It's a really small and insignificant sample.

If you don't mind. What region of the U.S. do you live in? (I'm from the south). Have you developed any sort of tan yet? Are you fair skin? Do you take any supplements and/or antioxidants? Do you drink green tea?

@stefanovic

Pseudocatalase said "Santa Claus" was using it in the morning only. As an alternative you could also look into conditioners and lotions.

To LEF:

Thank you for the much faster approval times. Smile
 
Ladd, I live in the Midwest. I have developed multiple tans this year already as I spend a lot of time outside for work. I've been taking Vitamin B-12, Vitamin B stress complex, and just started taking the LEF SODzyme and wolfberry. I do not drink green tea. Also, I am not fair skinned and have dark hair and dark complexion.
By DanRo - 6/5/2013 9:37:45 AM
On the Amazon link none of the reviewers have "Amazon Verified Purchase" listed. Not saying that they're not legitimate, maybe they are only that shady companies in the past have been known to spam their own products with positive reviews. 
By StarGazer2 - 11/2/2013 5:01:00 AM
If the crappy anti-grey pills that are sold in a bottle are raking in so many orders (suckers) without yielding definitive results, we'll have no problem identifying a product that actually works.

Whoever actually comes up with such product would unable to keep up with demand.   Excuse my skepticism, but they won't be offering it solely on eBay, nor would they feel the need to take down negative reviews on Amazon, or fail to post several before / after photos from several satisfied users of the product. 

Imagine if you had on your hands a product that reversed grey hair.  Once word got out that it really worked, you would be besieged with orders and 5-star reviews.  You would be getting swamped with so many orders, you would have to hire a distribution company to help with fulfillment.  You would in short time get a buyout offer or a royalty deal from a cosmeceutical company, assuming your formulation could be patented. 

One of the first things you would do, even if you operated out of your home, would be to get friends / relatives / acquantances to try the product for 3 months to enable to you have numerous before / after photos, which would drive sales quickly (assuming the product really lived up to its claims) upon market entry. 

Now ask yourself if any of the products currently sold on eBay or Amazon fit all those identifiers of a bona fide answer to grey hair. 

Nada.
By Jcoireangus - 9/3/2013 9:07:57 PM
Here's another company jumping on the pseudo catalase band wagon. Again, no photos...

Medical Wellness Center
http://xenicalwtloss.hypermart.net/pseudocatalase.html

A prescription is required and can be filled at a special pharmacy. Want to bet that the consulting docs aren't actually docs?  After all, pseudo catalase isn't a drug and doesn't need a doc to prescribe it. 

By BoB.org - 3/3/2014 7:28:06 AM
EN8686 (2/28/2014)
So I ordered the Pseudocatalse shampoo (from the poster with the same username) today. Crossing my fingers and hoping it reverses the limited grey I have and/or limits any further progression. Getting greys at 27 definitely sucks. I'll keep this board posted on my progress.




Also very interested to hear how you progress with this
By EN8686 - 6/10/2014 8:23:10 AM
@Pseudocatalase: Could you expand a little bit on what younger people could expect? I've got maybe 100-150 grey hairs, obviously still mostly black. This began at the age of 26, about a month shy of turning 27. I will b2 28 in August, so it has been about a year. Obviously this is premature and not age-related greying.

Since you talked about that looking at individual hairs is not a good way to judge results, how would someone like me judge whether its working? The picture route probably won't work, since I have to take the picture at a certain angle to even notice the grey hair.

I had thought that a good indicator would have been that the grey hair halted. That has not been the case, however, as there have been more grey hairs than when I started using the product.

I'm sure the stress has contributed, as I've been under a tremendous amount of emotional stress the last year or so. My parents also started getting grey hairs in their 20's so that's part of it. I guess the question is-- does stress cause a buildup of oxygen peroxide, causing the greys to come in, or does the stress trigger a different mechanism that causes the grey? If it is the later, then I would assume pseudocatalase would not help. But stress is so subjective and everyone experiences it, making it hard to really quantify.  
By Englishbull - 1/6/2014 8:37:37 AM
@troppo that is some serious dedication...and to think I am frustrated with just depo melanin alone!! Hope your results work better man you deserve it. Depo not even re-pigmented 1 single hair for me, waste of time. I really don't think there is anything to fully stop the greying process. Possibly re-pigment a couple of odd hairs here and there but not to the scale we all hope, I just don't think you can stop your body if that is its DNA
By DDye - 9/14/2014 1:19:57 PM
Dodge, from the perspective of females, grey hair on a man is not unattractive, even in a young man. Some even like it. (Not to negate your own feelings on the subject.)
By DDye - 6/2/2014 4:21:19 AM
Toni, you are free to edit any of your posts, by logging in and clicking the Edit button.

D Dye
By stefanovic - 6/6/2014 4:20:19 AM
Anyone tried the onion juice route in the mean time? I wonder if it could be added to coconut oil to neutralize the smell. Using it on a daily basis might not be a great option but a few times a week could be worth it?
By stefanovic - 2/28/2014 11:37:57 AM
Ladd and Bob, interesting remarks on the tanning and the effects on non greying hair. A more topical version of melanotan would definitely outweigh the hassle of injections. So you have ginger facial hair as well, Bob?
By wisdom1st - 9/21/2014 4:19:22 PM
@slider - I seen those pics of the other ebay PC seller.  I think the hair is wet in the 2 month photo, or maybe there is hair gel.  It looks like the hair is clumped together, rather than each hair flowing free.  If it is wet, it will certainly appear darker.  It is amazing that the seller has 100% feedback. 

That leads me to vitiligo.  Why are there no updated vitiligo pics on Einstein's or forum member PC?  Those pictures are close to a year old.  Although there was repigmentation, it was not completely restored.  Since it was working so well, I would think these users continued.  I would like to see updated pics of the vitiligo victims.  At the rate the color was being restored, there may be complete pigmentation by now.
By AussieDavid - 9/1/2013 12:26:51 PM
Señorgringo (8/31/2013)
AussieDavid (8/31/2013)
I have just returned to the US and have started using Depo-Melanin as of today. I am applying it to my whole scalp and also my facial hair. I am mostly grey on the sides of my head, but my hair overall has lightened over the years. It took about 3ml of the product just to do one coverage, so I'm going to go through it fairly quickly. I'm neutral on this one; it may well be a scam, but the concept is better than all of the pills/copper/tyrosine/shampoo scams I have wasted my money on in the past. 


Not to tell you your business but why don't you reduce your test to a small area first? If you go through the product too quickly you will have to buy more soon without knowing whether or not it works. By reducing your test to your sideburns (or beard, whatever) you are able to test it for 12 weeks and probably not run out of product. THEN - when you know it works - you can throw more money at Viaguard ;-)

Just a thought...


Yeah, good idea. I already have 4 bottles of it, so I have enough to last for 96 days at my current usage (I've refined it to 2.5ml, twice a day). I'd rather just go the whole hog and give it my best shot. 
By Slider - 9/19/2014 1:16:54 PM
Looks like the other ebay seller of PC Kus has some hair pics.
By Slider - 11/12/2013 12:23:51 AM
Time will be the judge of this"Pseudocatalase"
By Ladd - 6/18/2014 8:34:28 AM
The original kudzu study as a refresher:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662917/

I think the new study (no access) is based off this excerpt from the old one:

"In addition, our unpublished data indicate that the extract from P. lobata promotes the expression of MITF and melanogenesis in vitro, and its topical application prevents hair graying in MITFvit/mi mice (Park, 2012, unpublished data)."

They probably go much deeper into HOW/WHY kudzu works.

Kudzu + PC-KUS is probably worth investigating.
By calc - 6/10/2011 5:53:19 PM
DDye,

If I read what it is saying correctly if your hair is grey due to lack of a melanocyte then the only way for to be colored is for the hair to cycle back through to anagen stage again? So pulling out your grey hairs might be of some help in that situation, lol.
By jamieh - 7/23/2013 6:11:04 AM
I'm onto my second bottle now and it makes me smell like an old man's stale raincoat on the bus.

For those of you who received the replacement bottle, did they fix the smell?

Thanks!
By jamieh - 6/13/2014 9:00:18 AM
Which one has 4%?
By Maxicakes - 1/20/2011 9:47:04 AM
Are there any side effects fo-ti? and how much do you take?
By Beefster - 7/22/2013 10:44:49 AM
"Has anyone on here actually had any results?"

I've been using it for over six weeks twice a day with liquid DMSO, getting close to starting the second bottle. Although I'm getting some results, they are not the huge results people are looking for. I feel this treatment works a little more effectively than the sod / catalase treatment I previously used. See Post #7214 for details.

It's still early but I really don't see a total reversal in twelve weeks. I do, however, think they are finally starting down the right trail and more effective treatments are on the way. Part of the reason for my early results may be that I have used a sod / catalase treatment with results prior to this treatment.

FYI...I did not experience a bad smelling product. 
By DanRo - 4/29/2011 10:46:38 AM
That seems interesting so I did a search on rice bran and came up with this study:

http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19412203238.html;jsessionid=DB5AA32B84276E32722A392030E81E4F

They claim that the "restorative effect is entirely due to inorganic substances in the rice bran preparation". Since I'm currently trying out hops extract I'll have to wait on this one. But eBay does have rice bran extract for sale.
By stefanovic - 9/15/2014 12:14:17 PM
@h8grey: thanks for your post. I do believe a healthier lifestyle could help but other topical therapies shouldn't be ruled out.
Today a dermatologist told me she saw the best results with light therapy. Of course it depends on the strength of it.
BTW Added some soda powder to my melitane mix and now the ph is 6. Will measure it a few times a week from now on.
By stefanovic - 8/10/2014 5:37:19 AM
@Transpower: if it would work, it's probably another wash out hair dye, not a way to reverse greying.
By stefanovic - 2/4/2014 1:53:19 PM
Yesterday I did the peroxide test ( after ten days) and the bubbles came up after a couple of minutes. Lots of small ones but very obvious ones as well. ui
Tomorrow I also have the results of my blood test. I'll let you know what they found. Of course my doctor said grey hair is irreversible but I guess that's normal;

I'm using a neutral shampoo named dermolin and let it in for five minutes twice a day. I hope someone can confirm that it's okay.


In the past I've used melanotan and for me it darkened the non greying hairs ( but not the grey ones). The odd thing was: it didnt darken my very blonde eyelashes ( and yes I've had them tinted but it also grows out very quickly)

My question is: I'm also applying the shampoo to my blonde ( non grey) lashes for five minutes twice a day and I wondered if I combine it with melanotan, then my body will produce more eumelanin, could the pseudocatalase activate the eumelanin in my eyelashes as well?

Maybe an even better option would be the combination with melitame because that product really increases MSH levels too. I'm actually eagerly waiting to try that melitame combo as well.
By EN8686 - 3/31/2014 7:27:38 PM
Thanks for the replies about the serum I found. I got pretty excited, seeing as it had Melitane...didn't really think about the amount of Melitane.

I'm going to start using Morgan's Pomade tomorrow. Its one of those gradual darkening agents, using Bismuth Citrate, which I guess replaced the lead that used to be in these products. Morgan's seemed like a pretty good choice, since its been around for a while, isn't a liquid dye, and is basically a hair gel. Considering I have dark hair, hopefully it works. We'll see. Anyone have any experience with it?
By Englishbull - 9/21/2013 2:03:23 AM
Pseudocatalase (9/19/2013)
Englishbull (9/18/2013)
Pseudocatalase do you believe that Depo-Menalin works? And how does your product differ?


Englishbull, we do not have any specific information on Depo-melanin. I would presume from their listing that they offer a tonic containing a pseudocatalase. We did go to a lot of effort to use the most active form of pseudocatalase - the published variants by Schallreuter have greater than 5-fold difference in their ability to disproportionate hydrogen peroxide. The best way to know, if you have a product, is to test it by putting one drop of the product on a clean flat surface, and place one drop of hydrogen peroxide over half the product. Wait several minutes, and bubbling should be evident. All the products should turn hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen - that is the point. The melanocytes (pigment producing cells in hair follicles and skin) are very sensitive to the hydrogen peroxide produced in the other skin cells called keratinocytes. The normal role for this hydrogen peroxide is part of the immune response - protecting your skin. But if there is too much H2O2, the pigment cells are also killed. The other thing to be aware of is that many skin creams and shampoos react with pseudocatalase and become inactive, so it is important to choose a carrier that allows the pseudocatalase to retain its activity. Again, test it before you use it, and test it regularly (weekly or thereabouts), because there is nothing worse than finding out your product is inactive a month later! 






Thanks for the reply, have you any links on your product please?
By Beefster - 7/30/2013 8:26:12 AM
Experiment update:

Three gray hairs were easily seen in bathroom light this morning with no glasses. This was driving me nuts because last night when he stopped over I could hardly find the exact spot to treat with glasses. Took him down to the natural light this morning and was able to find a total of seven. My wife and I were messing around with the hair and figured out that it was easier to find because it was laying flatter on his head and the light was more perpendicular to the hair. If we stood the hair up it was very hard to find. My son's hair is about 3/8 inch in this area. If he's just washed his hair it stands up more and is harder to see. You can't hold it down because it's so short that your finger covers the area. Last night was probably harder to find because he had just gotten a shower and this morning was probably easier because it was oilier and he laid it down by sleeping on it.

My take is that I jumped the gun on this one. Although his girl friend claims at least 10 or more hairs to start and all three of us feel the area is harder to spot it is not the shocking results I first thought were happening. I'm continuing the experiment for as long as it takes to reverse or until my son decides to quit humoring his old man. I'll update when we get something substantial to report. 

My apologies to anyone I mistakenly mislead with the first report.
By DDye - 1/19/2012 4:16:03 AM
Yes, that's true about high amounts of zinc.  Carl Pfeiffer said it can take three to four months for high tissue levels of copper to normalize when one starts taking zinc, and this in my opinion may be how long it would take for zinc to normalize.
By stefanovic - 9/12/2014 3:33:18 PM
Hey Dodge1980, welcome to the forums. I can relate to that problem. I had medium long hair last year, shaved my hair short and all of the sudden I noticed a total different person. It must have happened in a matter of weeks and I had been under so much emotional stress before.
I even talked to someone using a laser helmet and he said: I had been under stress and the hair covered by the helmet remained dark ( he had been using the helmet for months at the time) and the hair not covered by the helmet turned white. So it seems that it reverses even stress related grey hair.
I also have the problem of the sides being white and a bit less on top of my head, maybe that's typically stress-related. I'm going to give melitane a go over the next months before I decide to purchase a more expensive device. It kinda looks unnatural as some spots are white and others are less white. It looks like I'm a cow.

Of course, being stress-free would be a great start too. It seems logical that less stress would cause some reversal. The thing is: stress seems to cause grey hair and grey hair causes stress, so you need to break the cycle in a way.
By EN8686 - 3/29/2014 8:46:18 PM
So instead of being out at the bars like most 28 year olds on a Saturday night, I'm browsing the internet for a gray hair cure...and I come across this...

http://www.professionalsolutions.net/professional-skin-care-reverse-grey-hair-serum.html

A reversing grey hair serum, available in the US, that contains...Melitane!! Under the ingredients list, it shows Glycerin (and) Water (and) Dextran (and) Acetyl Hexapeptide-1, which is exactly the INCI name for Melitane on the Lucas Meyer website.

Their website seems pretty reputable, has a long list of products, and doesn't reek of the Go Away Grey-type cheapness.

Unless I'm missing something, this is the kind of thing we've been looking for. A US version of Altris Gel. Thoughts?
By wisdom1st - 8/2/2013 6:01:41 PM
I believe the technology to bring back natural color to hair follicles exist by way of topically attacking H2O2 build up using a synthetic catalase. The reason I believe this is because there have been several scientists who have linked their names to this process, and it cannot be disputed that they stated they have developed a product that will work on vitiligo, as well as gray hair.  The only topical product that has been marketed that claims to reverse gray hair by attacking the H2O2 is Depo-Melanin. The question is whether this product works. 

On May 3rd of this year, the internet broke the news that Dr. Karin Shallreuter has developed a product that works on vitiligo, and it was strongly believed that the formula would also work to put natural color back into hair. Some of the vitiligo patients who had lost pigmentation in their eyelashes, gained the pigmentation back during their treatments. This prompted them to make a scientific statement that the product will work on adding pigmentation to any hair follicle. The product name is PC-KUS.  The PC stands for psuedo-catalase, and the KUS are the initials of Karin  U. Shallreuter.

Viaguard, the makers of depo-melanin have stated that their product is pseudo-catalase, and I have no reason to doubt that it is. A matter of fact, there have been several makers of pseudo-catalase. However, from what I have read, most of these pseudo-catalase products (usually prescribed from a dermatologist for vitiligo patients) are not very effective compared with the PC-KUS.

Viaguard has advertised that their product is better than PC-KUS because it is PC-KUS plus catalase. Now PC-KUS contains a synthetic catalase, with no mention of natural catalase. Prior posts have had a link attached to make pseudo-catalase, so that is not a secret. The secret is what is in PC-KUS besides pseudo-catalase. A matter of fact, if you look up Karin Shallreuter's treatments for vitiligo, she claims that PC-KUS is used plus calcium. The ingredients for psuedo-catalase include calcium chloride, so the plus calcium may not be relevant.  But there has to be something else in this product that distinguishes it from any other psuedo-catalase because it has been noted that it is more effective. From what I have read, the only way to get PC-KUS is by visiting Dr Shallreuter's team in England, and I think they are only treating vitiligo patients, in the past anyways.

Back to Depo-Melanin Is Viaguard's product PC-KUS plus natural catalase. Perhaps.  By adding the natural catalase, they would be changing the patented formula, which may somehow protect them from making it without authorization. Or maybe Dr. Shallreuter's lab leaked it out and  in some way is being compensated. It may just be the psuedo-catalase containing the ingredients that we have all seen, but may be lacking some of the ingredients in PC-KUS.  Maybe it is more effective than PC-KUS.  Only time will tell. From the get-go, it was stated that it takes 6 to 12 weeks, or longer for the product to work. Connecting that with what Beefster has been posting, it may take a long time.  I am willing to use the product for 6 months which would be about $162. 

By the way, the first mention of Depo-Melanin was on June 1st. There were comments added to the articles that flooded the web about PC-KUS between May 3rd and May 16th. Now I will speculate. I think Viaguard, which is a company with a good reputation, jumped quickly on the bandwagon and got a product on the market. They also have a R&D department, which I would think have scientists working with them as well. They were quick to develop their product because they would have been well aware of Karin Shallreuter and her team of scientists statements with regards to why hair goes gray. Once that information was released in 2009, Viaguard at anytime could have started their own R&D to get a product to market. A good start for them, or anyone else for that matter, would have been to research the progress of Karin Shallreuter, who happens to be in the dermatology field. It would have been easy for anybody to link vitilgo and lack of pigmentation in hair follicles in 2009 when Shallreuter made the build up of H2O2 public.

Do I think the product works? I don't know. Do I think all those other products (go away gray, ect.) work? No I don't.  I do think the technology is there to reverse gray hair, but I don't know if that product is currently on the market. I think Viaguard has put a lot of those comments on the internet stating how the product works, but I also think they did it to advertise their product.  It doesn't mean the product is ineffective because they were tooting their own horn to get people to buy it. Whether it works or not, I believe Viaguard will continue to improve the product, and they are shelling a lot of money into their R&D to make it as effective as possible. I have used the product for 7 weeks now, and I have no surety of positive results. I will continue the process, and I will update at a later date.
By Jcoireangus - 8/11/2013 7:26:58 AM
I've been applying depo-melanin now for about twenty days to my facial hair and temples. My hair is cut very short so it's easy to massage the serum into my skin. 

So far, there are no hairs that show colored hair at the roots. I can not definitively say I see any changes at all, although my beard does seem darker to me. 

I plan to continue this experiment for two months. 
By Ladd - 6/27/2014 5:23:57 AM
@EN8686

Awesome. Any change in whether or not you think the gray is progressing?

@Pseudocatalase

Right. If you're able to create a product with a longer shelf life it can be scaled into retail and/or the web.

Let's be honest though. This is much less about the consumer than it is about trying to corner the market. The most valuable option for the consumer is having a middle-man and an open source of data (what works and what doesn't) so they can mix their own solutions and save 757%. If people actually had access to such data sales would probably flip around (mix > product) or at least even out.

Covering only part of the demand curve is a mistake. I really hope you reconsider this.

@stefanovic

I don't know anything about DMI and haven't researched it. IMO lotion (only if you have short enough hair) or conditioner are MUCH better routes than shampooing daily (horrible for the hair). Again, DMI could be great but I have no idea. 
By Ladd - 2/27/2014 6:14:00 PM
@DanRo

Thanks for sharing. Is there any way to see the full study text and not the summary? The wording is loose and the results are undefined. If it produced good results I just feel like it would be a lot more popular than it is. There would be a line of satisfied Altris Gel users? I would love to be wrong. Hopefully someone will test it out so we can have a better understanding.
By EN8686 - 10/9/2014 8:57:38 AM
Just out of a curiously I wanted to take a little poll about the future of grey hair treatments, that might lead to some meaningful discussion.

Who here thinks that in the next 5-10 years there will be a meaningful alternative to current hair dye when it comes to dealing with grey hair? If so, what might that alternative be (stem cell therapy for reversal, topicsl treatment, a more efficient way to dye that leads to more natural results, etc, etc)? 
By cylonjim - 9/5/2013 6:39:29 AM
Jcoireangus:

Please don't let a few negative people stop you from contributing to this forum.  I for one find your commentary quite helpful and am following the log of your experiment very closely.  I am sure I am not alone.

There are always a negative few who are unwelcoming on these types of forums, but please pay them no mind as they are indeed the minority.  Furthermore, what they sadly don't realize is that their negative attitudes are the primary inhibitors of their personal progress.  Our society is brainwashed by mainstream western medicine to ignore the simple truth that the body responds to the mind, and negative expectations, beliefs, feelings, etc. will always bring about negative results no matter what physical action one takes that should otherwise work.  Furthermore a negative mindset programs one to unconsciously engage in self-sabotaging behavior (e.g., not sticking to a regimen despite the desire to do so, etc..  A negative person will never get results any way, not that I wish this on them...on the contrary.....hopefully they will become enlightened to this fact and reform at least for their own good.

Any way, I want to thank you and other active forum members for your valuable contributions.
By stefanovic - 1/25/2014 12:38:45 AM
Checked the solution again. Many bubbles have dissappeared. I made a pic of the peroxide test before and after

Before:

http://imgur.com/a3MOBAE

After:

http://imgur.com/Jpy0Op8


the solution in a container:

http://i.imgur.com/KAQi7xZ.jpg
By stefanovic - 1/2/2014 2:04:58 AM
I live in Belgium and I only get 1 option: pseudocatalase powder 10,75 grams.
In my country they sell Neribas cream containing: Aqua, Petrolatum (Vaseline), Paraffinum liquidum, Stearyl alcohol, PEG 40 stearate, Polyacrylic acid, Disodium EDTA, Sodium hydroxide, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.

Is this the right one?

As it is a cream I wonder how you mix it with pseudocatalase to get an active product?


I've experimented with melanotan in the past and it darkened the non greying hair growth although my eyelashes remained lighter. I wonder what the combo melanotan and pseudocatalase would do to eyelashes? 1- you increase your eumelanin and 2-you add pigment with the catalase.
By Dirk McQuickly - 11/29/2010 3:29:51 PM
Someone in the old thread mentioned that ground up liver neutralizes hydrogen peroxide. I was wondering if this (or some similar agent) could be made to reach the hair follicles by using a dermaroller or something of that kind. Is this a stupid idea?
By MV20 - 4/18/2013 11:53:33 AM
I found my first gray hair at the age of 16.  My maternal grandmother said her sister was completely white headed by the age of 18 while at the age of  50 she still had about 25% dark in her hair (not much encouragement).  My mother who is now 70 has only one or two white hairs and it is the same with my Mother-in-law. My Father was almost totally white headed by the age of 40. Over the years I have tried every vitamin and supplement that is suppose to help as I can see how a deficiency would cause your hair to turn white unnecessarily early.  I feel that if it is a normal by-product of aging and you can do something to slow down the aging process then your hair color would return.  However if it is genetic...I'm thinking that you will have to just dye your hair or get comfortable with the color.  I have been dying my hair for over 25 years, I hate it, but I didn't want to look older than my mother.
By Pseudocatalase - 9/19/2013 4:11:24 AM
Englishbull (9/18/2013)
Pseudocatalase do you believe that Depo-Menalin works? And how does your product differ?


Englishbull, we do not have any specific information on Depo-melanin. I would presume from their listing that they offer a tonic containing a pseudocatalase. We did go to a lot of effort to use the most active form of pseudocatalase - the published variants by Schallreuter have greater than 5-fold difference in their ability to disproportionate hydrogen peroxide. The best way to know, if you have a product, is to test it by putting one drop of the product on a clean flat surface, and place one drop of hydrogen peroxide over half the product. Wait several minutes, and bubbling should be evident. All the products should turn hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen - that is the point. The melanocytes (pigment producing cells in hair follicles and skin) are very sensitive to the hydrogen peroxide produced in the other skin cells called keratinocytes. The normal role for this hydrogen peroxide is part of the immune response - protecting your skin. But if there is too much H2O2, the pigment cells are also killed. The other thing to be aware of is that many skin creams and shampoos react with pseudocatalase and become inactive, so it is important to choose a carrier that allows the pseudocatalase to retain its activity. Again, test it before you use it, and test it regularly (weekly or thereabouts), because there is nothing worse than finding out your product is inactive a month later! 
By Ladd - 4/10/2014 3:31:07 PM
@zeno

Thanks. IMO this is a really big find. I don't know how it slipped by.

I wouldn't waste my money on the mix though. First, it's 57€. Second, the study was conducted using a spray.

@troppo

I was cheering for you. Any chance you're fair skin? Do you struggle getting a tan?

@pseudocatalase

If you get a chance can you look at the research posted by Zeno and share whatever observations you have? One thing I find odd: Pueraria lobata (Kudzu) is apparently an antioxidant. Antioxidants like green tea and turmeric have a negative impact on vitiligo and pseudocatalase treatment. I wonder why this is different?
By Ladd - 2/24/2014 10:12:54 AM
If there is demand for a product it will make it to market. Period. Pseudocatalase (the member) is proof. I think the "lack of progression" is an illusion because we are on the forefront of research involving gray hair. Big companies are notoriously slow.

I will revise my statements on melitane. I didn't realize it was being used in other products. All I seen was "Altris Gel" (from India).

http://www.pizbuin.com/en/our-products/tan-protect <- which now I recall Pseudocatalase posting a while ago.

It's definitely interesting. However, there is a caveat in that it only stimulates what already exists. White hair does not have melanocytes to stimulate and UVB exposure is the only thing that will make melanocytes return. If used in combination with pseduocatalase the hair would probably repigment at a faster rate (artificial), BUT only if the scalp was getting UVB.
By EN8686 - 5/30/2014 10:27:04 AM
To be fair, Pseudocatalase has claimed that his product has worked for "most" of the people that have tried it, yet he's provided evidence of exactly one person it appears to have worked for.

Furthermore, everyone that has tried it on here has had zero results.

Putting those two things together is where the frustration sets in.

I'm not asking for a refund as I understand the risks involved but I do think people should use their words more carefully. If you're going to claim that "it has worked for most," while providing very little evidence, and then three months later it has worked for nobody, some questions should be answered or at least speculated upon.

Also, I work outside and have a military style buzzcut so I don't think the UV exposure is the issue.
By Transpower - 3/7/2013 10:16:28 AM
The bottle of Moliva's Grey Away came in today, and I tried it.  Turns out it's really a dye with lead acetate.  As a result, I'll be using it very, very sparingly on my mustache.
By Zeno - 2/25/2014 8:01:03 AM

Im confident that LEF can make a affordable and reasonably efective anti gray hair shampoo based on MSH and pseudocatalase...

If the product development department decides to take on this challenge the consequences could be huge ...

LEF could end up making more money with this product alone than all the others combined ...

This money could then be used to make a quantum leap in anti-aging research.

This seems like a win-win situation.

By stefanovic - 4/16/2014 12:46:55 AM
@EN8686: In general people think: you can dye hair so they don't see it as anything as bad acne which is harder to cover. In general people don't care that much about the psychological side of it.
I have been using melanotan in the past. I'm a natural redhead and people constantly told me: sunless tanners are good as well, but psychologically it's so different: it doesnt feel like it's a part of you and you feel fake.
Maybe the melitane is more like melanotan ( as it doubles the MSH-activity). That's why the theory is interesting to me as it could darken my natural yellowish lashes ( melanotan darkens all the other hairs)
But in the end: people always see their problem as the biggest problem in the world. If an acne patient would read your post, he could probably think: how dare you claiming grey hair is worse, you can cover it with dyes. But maybe the day he will go grey, he'll think about it differently. That's why I know it's very important to be cautious and take care of anyone's problem and not starting to claim that something is better or worse.
By StarGazer2 - 10/18/2011 12:05:48 PM
Dr. Bauman would probably have some idea by now if latisse helps reverse some gray hair since he's been using it off label on several patients at his private practice. 

I never did hear what dosage he's using.  I'm thinking it's around 2015 for any Latisse approval (for hairloss) since they won't even complete Phase II until the end of 2012 (according to their CEO). 

I've learned you always tack on another couple years to whatever timeline these biotechs / pharmas give you. 
By EN8686 - 10/1/2014 3:46:47 PM
Not sure what to think of grey defence GeneJolt. I was under the impression that it would somehow work on the inherited tendencies that make certain people have more grey hair and grey earlier.

I'm not too familiar with some of the ingredients in this new product, although they seem to attempt to work on a cellular level, which is a good thing. The price tag is very steep-- almost $1000 for six bottles. That is a price I'd be willing to pay if there was some type of guarantee that it would work, at least on some level. If the trial run has some concrete results with good evidence, I'd be willing to try.

Hopefully new options continue and cellular-level/stem cell options arise in the near future. 
By Beefster - 9/23/2012 4:50:02 PM

I have decided to repost, come what may with the comments. Sorry for the words that run together, this is a formatting issue between my word for windows and the forum reply box during cut and paste. It looks fine in the reply box but runs together in the preview pane.

Please take this for what it is, some interesting information that you may or may not be able to use. 

I have had some success in reversing gray and white hair in an aging male and feel that the results may be worth sharing at this time. The gray hair is notof the prematurely graying type. My gray hair is the old age type. I’ll be 61 in October. I report my results after a number of years experimenting with many of the often mentioned topical and oral treatments that may help a prematurely graying younger person, black strap, brewers yeast, etc., etc., etc.. I havenever tried any gray hair concoctions prepared by any manufacturer. They allseem ineffective and more like marketing scams to me. Over the years I haveread this forum, the old forum, and numerous other forums concerning gray hairand hair re-growth. I’ve done a lot of research and gone down many rabbittrails. I’ve tried a lot of things and gotten some notable results with bothgray hair reversal and hair re-growth. The following is a report concerning mygray hair reversal:

Ihave had some minor reversal of gray hairs with:

1.Laser light helmet – while experimenting on re-growing hair, although notenough to recommend for reversing gray hair.(Maybe in combination) My laserlight helmet is setup to cover a NW stage 6 hair loss pattern.

2.Emu oil - again while experimenting with hair re-growth, although I had moresuccess with this than the laser light, (maybe because of time spent, hairstested and location) it is nothing I would recommend for gray hair reversal.(Again maybe in combination)

Whatworks for me is not a magical overnight solution. It takes some work and timebut has reversed better than30% of my gray hair in 2 years, which includes thisyear in which I was somewhat lax in the treatment. Although not the idealsolution, it is the best treatment I know of to date.

WhatI have found to work for me and would recommend to someone wanting to try tostop the graying and at least slowly reverse the condition:

1.Topical application of SOD (An idea inspired by the news article concerninghydrogen peroxide and gray hair a few years ago)

Myparticular topical mixture is inexpensive, readily available, and easy tomake…. I take an average size coffee mug and fill it half full with water. Put it in amicrowave and bring it to a boil. Add 2 to 3 capsules of Life Extension SODzyme (removing from the capsule) and stirfor about a minute. Then I place the mug back into the microwave and bring to aboil again stopping the microwave as soon as it starts to foam up so as not tooverflow and stirring some more.

Iusually let this steep for about 15 min before adding some more water (maybe¾full), stirring, and then applying. I use a teaspoon to get the solution intomy hand and carefully rub it into the graying areas so as to soak these areas.When near the end of the batch (about¼ left), I stir it, run what is leftthrough a strainer to remove the gunk at the bottom and continue to use theremaining liquid. This will usually last me 3 - 5 days (depending on spoilage)applying it twice a day to my head, beard and eyebrows.

Icut my hair with a number 2(¼ inch) so it is short. I always stir the formulathen let the particles settle before applying. I leave this formula out on thevanity top. It will go bad after awhile. How long depends on the temperature ofthe room. If  the air temperature is verywarm, the solution won’t last more than two to three days so I make smallerbatches. If it goes bad I just make a new batch. This stuff does not smellgreat to begin with but if it starts to go you will know it.

2.Emu oil is then applied to my hands and rubbed into all treated areas to helpwith penetration.

Afterabout six months, I revised the formula and got some better results by:

1. Adding2 tablets of lithium orotate(5 mg lithium ea).

2. Onecapsule of NAC 600mg. (I don't think you need this much NAC but it is what I use because it'swhat I have for oral use)

Idid this as part of a hair growth experiment (wnt signaling) but noticed animprovement in the gray hair reversal and have continued with this new grayhair formula ever since. I actually don’t know if it was the lithium or the NACor both, never experimented to find out.

3. Theemu oil was also changed at this time to DMSO for better penetration.

Someobservations about my gray hair:

Mygray hair has never changed with a dark tip as I often read. The entire hairwill slowly change color, gradually getting darker over time.

Reversinggray hair, re-growing hair and weight loss have something in common. Whatstands out is that they all seem to be a total reversal in the order of theprocess. With fat it is the last fat you gain will tend to be the first fat youlose. The last hairs you lost will tend to be the first to come back. Thelatest hairs to turn gray will tend to be the first to color. As a rule thisseems to hold pretty much true for me.

Ihave a test patch of pure white hair on my chest to use as a control. It nevergets any topical so I know if any oral treatment is working by itself. I didtreat this area for a very short while with this topical in the beginning andreversed a few hairs before I got smart and quit so as to save it for an oralcontrol. 

Todate the few hairs that reversed on my chest have not yet grayed with no furthertreatment in over 1½ years.

Emuoil seemed to be somewhat effective tome with small quantity of the last hairsto gray (maybe better put as the easier ones to reverse.) I still can notrecommend this as a treatment for reversing gray hair, only as some informationthat I learned

Howgray was I and how much has changed:

WhenI started my eyebrows were almost washed out with very little color. Now afterthe SOD treatment they are mostly dark with just a few grays. These hairsincidentally were some of the last to turn gray. (Emu did not seem to have anyeffect in this area or the beard area)

Mybeard was 100% white. Now, with about 30%reversal in the beard area, I havestarted to recognize the old familiar graying pattern. This 30% is not evenlyspread and is clustered forming the start of a coloring pattern developing inreverse order of the graying pattern, and similar to what I had as a youngerman. My mustache and the hair under my lower lip were some of the first to turnwhite on my beard and at this point have some of the least color.

Myhead hair graying pattern started with the sideburns and continued up to thetemples, traveling around my ears along the bottom edge of my hair line downthe neck and around the back. This gray hair continued to spread up until therewas a three to four inch band around my head slightly sloping up to the templesnear the ears. This had all pretty much turned white, feathering out darkernear the top.

Nowwith what may be more than 50% reversal at the back of my head, I have mostlycolor with about a half inch band of mixed color at the bottom around the backof my head. (Some small areas in this half inch band, still lean toward white).This hair in the back was some of the last to gray and whiten so they seemed tochange more easily. (Emu oil seemed to be at its most effectiveness in thisarea and on top, but not nearly enough to recommend.)

Thetemple area has recently started to turn color at the top and is very slowlymoving down. The temple and sideburns are probably closer to 10% and were thevery first hairs to gray on my body. The hair near the ears has been turningcolor and is moving down more so than the temples and I estimate near 30%.

Anyarea that has turned color still has a few grays. Many hairs in what is left ofthe first to turn white areas at the sideburns and temple now have many hairsthat are in the process of changing and getting slightly darker. What’s left ofthe hair on the top area of my head is also darker with less scattered grays.Although a number of the new hairs that I have started re-growing come in withno color before changing. (Many come in dark but they may have cycled)

Miscthoughts:

Thewhite hair is harder to reverse, therefore takes longer. All my gray hair getsequal treatment yet changes back to color at different rates which seems to bein the reverse order in which they grayed and eventually turn white. I don’tknow if it is because of more damage to the older whites or more buildup ofdetrimental substances which takes longer to work its way out, or maybe acombination of both. (Each and every hair does not follow this pattern, but anoverwhelming majority of hairs do)

Foranyone on a real tight budget, the most inexpensive version to try would be theaforementioned SODzyne (or possibly a less expensive sod) without the NAC andlithium, and using DMSO instead of the more expensive Emu oil as the penetrant.I did get good results with the SODzyne alone with either emu or DMSO beforefeeling I noticed an uptick with the NAC and lithium. I would also make smallerbatches so as to use it up and not have to discard any that has soured or mayberefrigerate.

Myinterest in gray hair reversal and hair re-growth is primarily a desire toprove that this is indeed possible.

I'vebeen hesitant to change the formula lately because I don't want to mess-up agood thing. However, I do feel this is just a beginning with muchimprovement to come by others through collaboration. Hopefully, someothers can benefit from this information and help improve this method withpossibly better ingredients in the mixture, and/or an improved applicationprocess.

Referencesto emu oil or laser and gray hair reversal are observations made during hairre-growth experimentation and just a minor side effect noticed at that time.Although I was pleasantly surprised, it was nothing of major significance.

Anytime I notice any hairs slightly changing color (no matter how slight) withthis procedure it is a very good sign, because they will eventually get darkerover time as I continue with applications.

Ido take many supplements for my health including oral SODzyne. I do not knowthat this helps. I do know that any oral supplement by itself has not producedany reversal of gray hair for me. (I do feel that any oral supplement toincrease sod and catalase and or reduce hydrogen peroxide may help a topicalfor gray hair)  

Ionly list the SODzyne because it is what I use and may have aninfluence on the mixture, although I don’t know this. I feel that other sodproducts may work too. (I tried one other sod product for a short while and didnot like it for several reasons unrelated to effectiveness.)

Questions:

Iwill answer any questions you may have as I have time. 

Ifyou do not think this can help you, don’t try it. This is a report about mymixture and procedure as it affects my hair.

Iwill not be posting pictures because I have no good before pictures and photosmean nothing. Photographs can be photo-shopped and hair can be colored. In theend, it would be a waste of my time and yours.

Goodluck in you endeavors to reverse gray hair! 

By sartios - 1/24/2014 1:49:17 AM
Hi, i make a lotion with MELITANE and i tried it to my hair about 3 months, the result was some white hairs turn it black but some others continued to turn it white, i belιeve a combination of MELITANE and PC-KU is the best but i don't know if the PC-KU is compatible with the other ingredients of the lotion like ALCOHOL DENAT and PROPYLENE GLYCOL, maybe someone of you knows?? 
By StarGazer2 - 1/20/2012 5:28:23 AM
Re:  Dark Greens will reverse grey hairs!

Gary Null was also a big proponent of 'just eat wheatgrass and greens to cure all your ills (including grey hair), and as it turned out less than 10% of people polled on Null's program claimed ANY reversal of grey hair.


There are tons of people who eat tons of greens and have grey hair.   There are also several claims on the I-net that raw food diets reverse grey hair.   And for every person who claims that raw foods reversed their grey hair, there are thousands that can't make that claim.

What you're talking about is phytonutrients, and phytonutrients will not reverse grey hair for the vast majority of people.  

Just because one lady who is out to sell books claims it worked for her doesn't make it some physiological law.

It's a good idea to eat more foods rich in phytonutrients but anyone who truly expects to have it reverse the greys is a sucker for a $9.95 cure-all book.
By wisdom1st - 9/16/2013 3:59:56 PM
tonifromafar - I have a suspicious mind, so I through that out there. I really did figure it was unlikely you were the seller.  I was not trying to be offensive, so I apologize if I you took it that way.

With regards to the Ebay link:  
The seller has 100% positive feedback stemming from over 300 business transactions. You'd need insider help at Ebay to make that up. No doubt, this seller comes off as honest. He (she)  never states that the product will bring back lost pigment to hair follicles. Although the seller has had feedback of the product working on vitiligo, nobody has replied back showing proof that it works for gray hair reversal. Basically, this sellers marketing points are that one will get more bang for their buck, and it is in its pre-mixed state. Once pseudocatalsae is mixed, the onset toward decomposition of the formula begins. It sounds logical.

I am going to reiterate some of the things I posted about PC-KUS. PC-KUS has been around a long time, and has been known to work on vitiligo dating back to at least 2003. It's interesting how the news this past May states that 'a "modified"  PC-KUS will bring back lost pigment to hair follicles. What's great, is that it also works for vitiligo'.  Vitilgo takes the back seat in this statement. Why? Maybe because the original PC-KUS, patented in 1995, works fine for vitiligo, but not so good for gray hair. What was "modified" from the original PC-KUS formula? Maybe this modification that Dr Shallreuter and her team of scientists have made is still under tight wraps.

For the record, I had read that the makers of PC-KUS have stated that their product has a 12 month shelf life. 

    
By Señorgringo - 10/15/2013 2:27:42 AM
I used depo melanin for 16 weeks, constantly, never skipped an application, 4 bottles, no changes. No plans to re order it. My experiment ends here.
  • I was tempted to try the shampoo of pseudocatalase, but, after seeing the pictures, I am not really into spending 50$ for a shampoo 


I guess we're on the same page then - about the same period (12 weeks plus) and no results. Per pseudocatalase's recommendation (fellow posting here) I did the peroxide test and there was not a single oxygen bubble in the sample. I would be curious - if you still have any around, could you please do the test and report back? I think the product has been a scam from the very get-go - who knows what we've been putting on our heads all this time...
By Ladd - 5/28/2014 5:19:00 AM
@stefanovic 

Washing the hair twice a day is definitely not a good idea. With every wash your hair and scalp are stripped of their natural oils. Every 2-3+ days is ideal although that isn't the best route when using PC.

***

When you take something that is understood very little (PC in relation to gray hair) and combine it with no control (the variability of our product usage, environment, lifestyle, and etc) chaotic results are more likely than not.

I've been using it for 5 months. I can't say I've seen reversal but I can't say it has progressed either (a good sign).

I still think sun exposure is crucial. The people in the photos we see started in mid summer last year and according to the postmarked envelope live in the southern U.S. (for non Americans the southern U.S. is warm for at least 8 months of the year). Unfortunately I've been busy and haven't gotten the exposure I was hoping for (this will change). Unless I can accurately point out progression in the gray I will remain optimistic.
By Englishbull - 9/18/2013 6:40:23 AM
Pseudocatalase do you believe that Depo-Menalin works? And how does your product differ?
By DanRo - 3/1/2013 5:54:30 AM
brm (2/23/2013)
DDye (2/18/2013)
http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/2/557.abstract

This abstract about hair loss, not gray hair, but if bimatoprost darkens eyelash hair and also makes eyelashes grow, it might impact scalp hair color if it makes hair grow.


Bimatoprost or a spin-off product is said to be used in Revitalash. My dermatologist used this product on her temples. She claims to have regained some 10-15% of pigmented hair and hence gave up. "Insufficient results" she said. There's a scalp hair product by revitalash now. They don't mention any pigmenting feature on their website though.


Those results might improve with Allergan testing a higher strength solution for hair loss. It reportedly is also formulated to penetrate the skin and go directly to the follicle and that should make it more effective as well.

Even then it may only increase it from 10-15% to maybe 40-50%, although that"s just a guess on my part. I don't think they will ever come out with something that returns 100% since like with hair loss these treatments work best with the most recent changes. Hair that's been gray for years will most likely always stay that way.     
By stefanovic - 6/18/2014 4:01:24 AM
I have deleted those pics, just didn't want anything to remind me of that grey period.
At the moment my hair is dyed. I went to have a haircut 5 days after I had dyed it and the hairdresser already saw my roots. I don't understand why people say hair dye is a solution, you just have to re-dye it every 6-8 weeks.

I'm currently using the melitane with DMI as a carrier. Started using it last thursday so way too early to see any results.
I wonder if the MSH agonist are similar to melanotan. When I was on melanotan, I noticed hair darkening, also dose depending.

There was also a brand new pubmed article released on kudzu beans, I just can't read the contents: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24924521?dopt=AbstractPlus

Lots of claims about kombucha tea are found online. I don't think scientific research has been done on this, but it also doesn't mean it cannot work.
By BoB.org - 2/7/2014 7:54:57 AM
Thanks for  the Welcome DDye great set up you have hear. I also really can't wait to try melitame would be great if someone was producing it as I would have no idea where to start on mixing up a solution to try out. As I said in my last post if anyone has any experience or knows if it would work on facial hair would love to hear from them

    BoB
By Tom. - 9/16/2011 8:08:36 PM
Cheat Ya - 800 times.

Purposely done or subconscious guilt when the screen name was created?

With hair growth cycles it takes at least 6 months, or more realistically a year before any substantial difference is noticed.
By stefanovic - 6/9/2014 11:47:19 AM
I really hope there will be improved versions of the product in the near future as the success rate of users on this forum is very low. I have taken pics in october last yr and last week and it was about the same, probably a bit more greying. I needed a cut because shampooing twice a day had destroyed my hair.

I've been in touch with quite a few long term LLLT users and the product maker assured me grey hair has been reversed when using this device because of an increase in SOD. If you'd google grey hair and LLLT you get a lot of hits. It must do something.

My next step is the melitane. Already got it at home, now I'm still waiting for the carrier DMI ( is currently being processed by customs in my country). Hopefully I'll have it this week.
By LEF_fan - 1/19/2011 4:36:15 PM
JCDance,

I would like to add some Fo-Ti to my current supplement regimen. Can you share what brand(s) you have tried? Dosage?

If LEF sold Fo-Ti then I would go with their brand, but since they don't..I would appreciate any suggestions you might offer.

Lastly, was your hair grayer before you started taking the Fo-Ti? Just curious..

Thank you!

LEF_fan
By wisdom1st - 5/17/2013 9:08:32 AM
brm (5/16/2013)
The basic reflex is to turn to your local pharmacist. He should either be able to make the compound or ask his usual lab to do it.

The problem is the vehicle: EDTA is not regarded as completely benign, including by topical route. I just wonder why old alcohol (ethanol) and his team mate propylen glycol couldn't do the job.


I don't think you can go to a local pharmacist and order manganese II chloride.  I found a place on the internet to place an order -  a company name, how the product will be used, and several other questions  need to be answered before the order will be released.  This place is located in Milwaukee WI.  I do not think I will get the product.

Neribas is one of the ingredients, for it is a cream with EDTA.  This product is hard to find on the internet because it is German, and everything is in German on the internet.  I am perceiving  from the formula that the EDTA has some significance, but the concentration may not be a huge factor.  There is a Cetaphil creme containing EDTA that very well may be as effective.  I've used a Cetaphil lotion for dry skin, and it is almost odorless, so I'm thinking there is not a lot of unnecessary ingredients put into it.  I think it would be a good subsitute for Neribas.  The calcium chloride and the sodium bicarbonate are relatively easy to get.  You can get an electronic balance for about $15.00 on the internet.

I want to point out one other issue.  Pseudo-Catalase has been replicated by Northwestern University, as well as a drug maker in Pennsylvania.  Northwestern University put a trade name called P-Cat on their product.  According to the makers of PC-KUS, these replicas are ineffective at reducing the hydrogen peroxide levels, for the makers of PC-KUS have tested these replicated products.  Somewhere in the aricles all over the internet, "modifed" pseudo catalase is mentioned.  Maybe the product has changed since its original patent back in 1995.  Maybe the formula we are seeing is incomplete.  


I do believe that this PC-KUS is the answer, and will work to reverse gray hair on at least some people, if not the majority.   If the link we seen above is the "MODIFIED" formula, then it's worth a try.  The Manganese II Chloride will be the difficult ingredient to attain.  Probably would not need a UVB light, for exposure to the sun would be fine.  Has anybody obtained all of the ingredients, and have they already started a process?  I would suggest just trying on part of the scalp, or even facial hair.  
By EN8686 - 9/16/2014 2:39:22 PM
Right, I agree and don't think its something that exists but people don't know about it.

My point is that the only way, IMO, we get a reliable treatment is for this to get as much attention as other cosmetic issues like balding and vitiligo. And "hair dye" is a tired excuse that should be dismissed. Its no better than wigs for baldness or makeup for vitiligo. And it plain doesn't work for people with short hair. Its time to change the conversation. 
By EN8686 - 8/17/2014 11:19:33 AM
@Ladd, you plan on dying it if the greying gets really bad to early?

I kind of go back and forth on the issue. I just turned 28 and I can't imagine what its going to look like at 34-35.

I just don't know of the maintenance is worth it, plus I don't think it would look very natural at all.

With all the technology out there, you would think there would be a way to match a dye to your exact hair color.  
By Transpower - 3/6/2012 5:40:55 AM
We guys do eat our greens as well as plenty of lean meat!  I'm disappointed that for Forum members who have tried Grey Defence, it doesn't work.  Thanks, at least, for saving me money....
By Zeno - 7/23/2013 12:39:02 PM
Sorry if this is old news but it seems promising:

https://www.google.com/patents/US8445004

http://www.happi.com/issues/2013-07/view_breaking-news/loreal-combats-melanocytes-disappearance-in-hair/

• US Patent No. 8,445,004 B2; L’Oréal, Paris, has patented a  method for combating the disappearance of the melanocytes of hair follicles by maintaining and/or by regenerating the population of active melanocytes of the bulbs and of the quiescent melanocytes of the upper region of hair follicles. It is comprised of topical administration of EUK-8, 21-aminosteroids, or putrescine for such period of time as required to elicit the desired effect, a thus effective amount of at least one active agent mimicking DOPAchrome tautomerase activity selected from the group consisting of EUK-8, 21-aminsteroids or putrescine. - See more at: http://www.happi.com/issues/2013-07/view_breaking-news/loreal-combats-melanocytes-disappearance-in-hair/#sthash.der4nRPg.dpuf "

By DanRo - 11/2/2013 7:24:58 AM
Since we're on the topic of dubious products on the market and getting sold here's the latest from Japan:

http://toeishinyaku.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/137518490-103921837/Hair_growth_supplement_Hair_Dolluce_GOOD_BYE_hair_dye_shampoo.html

Say goodbye to gray hair for only $165.00 a bottle, unless you purchase a 1000 bottles or more, then they might be gracious enough to give you a discount. Btw, I wouldn't recommend this even if it worked since some studies have shown that increasing IGF-1 in the body can stimulate cancer.
By stefanovic - 10/1/2014 12:04:45 AM
I wonder if there's a different approach in treating white and vitilo affected hair. Doctors found it hard to determine it's just greying or vitiligo in my case ( the spots are kinda concentrated), but good to see new approaches, hopefully some pundits can elaborate on it.
By StarGazer2 - 9/27/2013 4:50:22 PM
Pseudocatalase,You're probably aware that individuals who are Type I on the Fitzpatrick Scale respond well (skin repgimentation) to melanotan. 

I know the melanotan science isn't the same as with pseudocatalase, but does that give you any hope that your product might work for some fair skinned individuals with grey hair?  I'm a Type I/II on the Fitzpatrick.  I do tan a little. 

Incidentally, I did experiment with melanotan off the grey market years ago, and while my whiskers weren't grey, my whiskers darkened significantly very quickly (from ash / brown to dark brown / black).  This was suprising because melanotan has not been known to darken human hair.  Cheers.
By Ladd - 4/16/2014 8:55:17 AM
@Pseudocatalase

*Mind explosion*

Definitely the most valuable post in this thread.

Thank you.

All we can really do is maintain or improve upon our overall health, apply it, hope for the best, and stay up to date with new research as it comes out.

All products considered PC without question offers the highest probability of success. IMO the 2nd best option (distant) is Kudzu (slows it down). Melitane would still be a fun experiment as well (I hope those interested follow through on it and share the formula/results, everything is there to make it happen). I'm personally content sticking with PC only for a while to come. We'll see what happens.
By EN8686 - 5/16/2014 1:41:57 PM
This might be a bit off topic from grey hair treatment but I figured it applies...

Wanted to ask the guys that are getting prematurely grey and are still single... How has this effected your dating lives and how do women react. I'm still about 1-3% grey but it is something that worries me for the future. Would love to hear the opinion of others
By Dayna - 9/16/2013 7:31:50 AM
My hair started going grey before I reached 30.  I dyed it my natural dark chestnut brown for 25 years.  UGH! 
Today, I love the compliments I get, being liberated from dye and constant touch-ups, but mostly - it is very natural.  I'm one of the lucky women who go grey and have a bright white in front and darker contrast toward the back.  It was so difficult to get through the grow out stage, but getting "low-lights" put in my my colorist really helped.  The grey also changed my color pallet.  I used to wear browns and off whites, but no more.  I have to put color on my face so I don't look washed out.  That's part of the problem with people looking older with grey hair... they don't adjust their color pallet or their make-up to compensate.  Men don't have to worry about this too much, they simply look more distinguished.     I say, "Embrace the Grey"!
By Pseudocatalase - 1/5/2014 4:47:45 AM
@gotsomegray, room temperature is fine. 
By Ladd - 11/11/2013 7:16:11 AM
StarGazer2 (11/10/2013)
If I'm not mistaken, Dr Karin merely speculated pseudocatalase might reverse grey hair.  What has been established is that it helps with vitiligo.


Vitiligo and gray hair have similar biological causes (although it's possible there are more that haven't been found), so while it is speculative, it's definitely not a gigantic leap of faith. It appears that gray hair can be treated cosmetically and it's a far easier problem to solve than balding.

StarGazer2 (11/10/2013)
There is no such product.  If there was, they wouldn't be selling it on eBay with a kitchen-made label and they wouldn't be taking down negative consumer reviews or operating out of their home.


There are no products because the research and theories are essentially brand new. The pseudocatalase/gray hair thing hit back in May? Not long ago at all. I personally think we're on the brink of a mass marketed treatment (1-3 years). L'Oreal filed their patent back in 09 (which was magically "stumbled upon" by the press back in June). It takes many years to get a product from development to shelves. Could you imagine if they released something that left people bald or with green hair after a year of use?

Also, in fairness to Pseudocatalase (the forum member) he has been pretty transparent. I wouldn't box him in with the rest as he has never claimed the possession of some "miracle cure", just that it MIGHT work and him and his colleagues are testing it (although I do wish there was even more transparency, i.e. photos with the testing). 

I wouldn't be surprised if psueodocatalse does work, but doesn't reverse gray hair completely. It could be a product that stops/prevents graying and MAYBE reverses it. The level of effectiveness is probably determined by age, health, and amount of time already spent graying. We just don't know.
By dragonballz4 - 6/2/2014 1:02:42 PM
Hello,
I am 21 and have white hairs.They premature and i would like to know either Depo-melanin or psuedocatalase work?
Thank You.
By JenJ - 8/25/2011 6:11:24 AM
Interesting about the stem cell for the treatment of greying hair.  I know of two products which have stem cells - Isomers formulated a hair/scalp product last year called Reclaim (Isomers.ca)  I understand that one of the head chemist (and co-owner), Darius, formulated this for his own use.   Another product is by Beautiful on Raw (Tonya Zavasta's website) the Hair & Scalp tonic. I actually purchased this but haven't been consistent.  I like it because it contains ingredients to exfoliate the scalp and provide nutrition....I will start using it consistently and see if I notice decreasing greys.
By DanRo - 5/20/2013 7:02:29 AM
@wisdom1st,

Another angle for treatment is the use of l-methionine, since in that 2009 study they found that it prevented Met oxidation and the subsequent damage to melanocytes. Perhaps a combination of l-methionine and other amino acids alone or together with pseudocatalase would make for a more effective application.  
By stefanovic - 2/16/2014 2:25:01 PM
Ladd (2/16/2014)
@stefanovic

Smoking is linked to early graying so it's not inconceivable to think stress (among other unhealthy things) could do the same. An unhealthy lifestyle can make the process turn on sooner but in the majority of people it is not the underlying cause. Genetics and thus aging do the deciding. IF that wasn't the case then why on average do people of African descent start graying a decade+ after those of European descent?


In the end it's about finding a solution. I started using the pseudocatalase shampoo a bit more than 3 weeks ago so it's too early to detect any results. I'm also working on reducing my cortisol levels and I'm more than open to other alternatives like the new melitame stuff.

Premature greying doesn't run in our family and most people have a worse lifestyle than I have. Over the last year I've been exposed to a tremendous amount of stress and the greying almost happened overnight. I think it's important not to blame one thing or another. If it's genetic, the pseudocatalase will probably help me. If it's the other thing, then that might help me.
I asked my doctor to also check my B12, copper and zinc and she didn't do it. That's typical about doctors over here. They don't have much time, don't really listen and check a few things that are important to them. I just guess the smartest choice right now is to work on it on different levels.
By Hairy2012 - 1/8/2013 2:24:36 PM
JBaR (1/4/2013)
I have noticed at least one post touting the consumption of vegetables and greens as a "cure" for grey hair, or perhaps as a way to reverse greying. I have had prematurely white hair for approximately 20 yrs. I am 67,F, will turn 68 this yr. I started a new health regimen which was the consumption of more fresh fruits and vegetables by means of juicing in mid-July of 2012. I juice with an emphasis on green vegetables, but include all colors and 1-2 fruits a day. I have consumed 2-5 juices a day consisting of various mixes of kale,cucumber, celery. lettuce, squash (both summer and winter types)oranges, lemon,  parsley, sweet potatoes, ginger, watercress, pears, green apples, carrots, and occasionally asparagus, broccoli, cantaloupe, watermelon, and grapes. In Oct and Nov. I used pomegranate daily. After I was doing this for approximately 3 months, every day, I noticed that my hair was growing in very much darker. As my hair seems to be naturally replacing itself, it is coming in a shade or so darker than my formerly natural color. I am not sure of the rate at which healthy hair depletes and replaces itself, but I now have about 15% of the dark hair on the top of my head, and perhaps as much as 50% around my temporal hairline (trying to indicate the area above and around the ears back to the neckline). My hair which was a pristine clean white, is now salt and pepper. My guess is that I may have had some deficiencies (and stress)  that caused my hair to whiten, which is being now generously supplied by the amounts of vegetables I am eating. I have also completely cut out sugar,most dairy, all grain, and most of the white stuff from my diet. I still consume a modest amount of red meat and eggs. I have been juicing continuously for 6, going on 7 months.


It was me that talked about drinking a green supplement.  It didn't stop the gray for me.  I stopped drinking the greens.  I am now taking a supplement for the hair that has a lot of stuff in it (mainly B's and Biotin).  I won't know for a while since, instead of my rinse, I used a dye this time.

It seems like you found something that works for you.  I couldn't eat all fruit and then cut out surgar and everything else.  I would be dark haired and my appetite UNsatisfied.
By Pseudocatalase - 2/28/2014 12:59:18 AM
@Ladd, with respect to where melanocytes come from after the hair follicle is depleted. The best picture I can make of the limited evidence today is that tyrosinase positive melanocyte stem cells are normally present in the hair follicle. These stem cells produce melanocytes. The presence of tyrosinase suggests they make melanin also. They are replenished by a precursor stem cell that is not tyrosinase-positive that migrates from a nearby nerve sheath and then differentiates into a melanocyte stem cell. Consistent with this idea, melanocyte stem cell replenishment is a slow process. 
By Pseudocatalase - 10/1/2013 9:10:06 AM
@DanRo, we are attaching a picture of 3 months. This is the earliest time point at which we feel you should see changes. This is somewhat complicated, however, for a few reasons. First, you need the light and exposure to be exactly the same to show a real test, and we don't have that set up. Second, as mentioned earlier, my colleague is gaining blond hairs and brown hairs while losing gray and white. Some of the brown turns blond, and the overall darkness doesn't really go down that much. But, if you look at the two pics, you can see no blond hairs at all in the left, whereas there are a lot of blond hairs on the right. He previously had not seen a blond hair on his head in about a decade. Third, you should also get the impression that when this process works, it is a slow process. We are curious where it will go in 12 months, given that this is the 3 month change. Hope this helps. 

By troppo - 10/15/2013 5:11:35 PM
I have purchased pseudocatalase's cream and it passed the hydrogen peroxide test.  I had been using a different cream from pseudocatalase.com and it passed the test but displaced noticeably less hydrogen peroxide.

Also, I must disclaim I have absolutely no affiliation with any of these guys - I just want my beard to stop turning white/gray!

I will say that pseudocatalase was very helpful/responsive when answering emails about his ebay product and I appreciate that.



Xtian- did u use the UVB lamp along with the cream?  don't give up now...
By xtian - 8/24/2013 8:18:16 AM
... and anyway, the company claims that the product is developed to work without exposure to sunlight or any other kind of phototherapy
By Zeno - 4/23/2014 8:47:56 AM

I wonder if  this liquid Kudzu glycerine mix could be aplied topicaly to prevent gray hair :

http://www.iherb.com/product-reviews/eclectic-institute-kudzu-glycerite-alcohol-free-2-fl-oz-60-ml/12950/?p=1

The korean study was made with a ethanol kudzu extract spray. Could it work also mixed with glycerine ?

Thanks
By Zeno - 2/27/2014 8:17:34 AM
DDye:

When u submited my suggestion to the product development department did u stress the potencial huge economic benefits of a anti gray hair shampoo ?

I think LEF has little to lose and everything to gain from embarking on this project.

Thanks again
By stefanovic - 5/30/2014 8:38:00 AM
@ Ladd: I have problems with this line: "Implying fraudulent behavior, in any capacity, without any evidence is downright ridiculous and dumb."


In the end I think I'm speaking on behalf of many dissappointed users having lost money on something that doesn't work. I don't consider myself dumb or ridiculous. I've had regular blood checks so it's not caused by another problem. That's something I can rule out for myself. But if really no one can come up with a good review, then does it really make sense to say something like "implying fraudulent behaviour"?

We're here to help each other, not to mess with sensitive people having psychological issues because of their hair problems.
By stefanovic - 2/24/2014 6:16:32 AM
There are plenty of knowledgable people on this forum able to help us out on creating formulas based on science and research, so there's no need to let others having created it for you. The subject is very alive and hopeful, so let's hope and work on a solution real soon.
By Pseudocatalase - 1/9/2014 10:45:32 AM
@dave, it was a bit of a holy grail for us to find hairs that grew out initially white and then regained full pigment. It would be like a hair dye in reverse (when the white is at the base). We have almost no examples - just a few chest hairs that show it. Generally, when the pigment returns, it is faint, and slowly gets denser, which is not dramatic at all!  If you want to see significant change, you need to think on a timescale of 3+ months. But it is definitely not the case that the hair needs to fall out and recycle through telogen to anagen phase. The melanocyte either finds the hair follicle or becomes more active, and the pigment slowly returns as the shaft extends. 

@DanRo. With respect to melitane, you may be interested in Piz Buin "Tan and Protect"
By Ladd - 1/14/2014 12:37:00 PM
@Englishbull

I'm in the U.S. I will PM you the product I mixed it in. As an entrepreneur myself I don't want to publicize something that could affect another mans business (i.e. I don't want him to get stuck with a bunch of lotion). If Pseudocatalase states otherwise I will post publicly.

I just tested for a reaction 5 minutes ago and the results are still positive (after 1.5 weeks).

Also, please note I'm able to use lotion because I cut my hair down to 1/4 inch. Once your hair gets into the 3/4 - 1+ inch long range I'm not sure lotion is the way to go (have to test for yourself). However, the product I used got much "softer" after I mixed the pseudocatalase so it spreads nicely.

***

The other seller of pseudocatalase on Ebay has a lot of "non-factual" information in his listing. The member here (Pseudocatalase) IMO has vastly superior knowledge. He clearly knows what he's talking about.

Mixing your own product is not difficult and it should not deter anyone from purchasing the powder. Most middle school science labs are more difficult. The hard part is finding a suitable carrier.
By Englishbull - 8/26/2013 9:36:13 AM
First of all a cracking last post from wisdom1st! That guy is on the same wavelength as me!

5 weeks I feel is way too early to say the product is a scam. This is gonna take time and also it does even state on the bottles results between 6 - 12 weeks. So maybe if we are gonna judge it should be after 12 weeks?

I'm not even 2 weeks in yet so cannot comment.
By vlc - 3/12/2014 1:02:21 PM
The day LEF actually has a product specifically made for this, will be a very special day.  The stuff will no doubt be also great for the whole body and boy will it sell and sell and sell!
By DanRo - 3/25/2014 6:32:37 PM
@BoB.org, the beard hairs that are still pigmented are dark as they've always been, although in the last few years they may have lightened up a bit. I'm primarily hoping to re-darken or slow the gray/white hairs that have come in on the lower sides and on the chin. The rest of my body hair remains normal. I will definitely keep everyone updated once I start using it.  
By stefanovic - 9/16/2014 9:35:31 AM
Morgan's pomade is a progressive dye, it doesn't darken new growth and will stain clothes, pillows, sheets,... If you'd apply it daily, you would probably see a progressive darkening without the roots effect of a dye but it's not a solution.

Thanks for the tip on black pepper, it's kind useful. I think it's good this board becomes a place to help people again and not just stories to complain about everything. Negativity will not solve the problem.
By StarGazer2 - 8/6/2013 3:24:50 PM
Jcoireangus,

Thanks for posting here.  I'm interested in seeing how it goes for you.   

Good luck!
By jomic - 2/4/2013 4:15:55 PM
[quote]JenJ (1/31/2013)
This link was posted on another board this morning, so I thought I'd share it here.

http://drugstorenews.com/article/new-getawaygrey-natural-supplement-offers-alternative-hair-dyes[/quote]

RE: getawaygrey natural supplement post on turning grey due to aging. I'd like to know how do they explain away premature grey NOT caused by aging. hmm?
By Hairy2012 - 3/14/2013 5:03:00 AM
I agree with the previous poster.  Whenever I see a testimonial for a product or service, I look at the person giving the testimonal.  For instance, if GREENS reverse gray hair, why is your hair still gray?  If being a vegan reverses gray hair, why is your hair still gray.  If a cure has been discovered for gray hair, why is the researcher and his staff still gray?

Case in point: Dr. Oz promotes remedies for wrinkles, gray hair, and youthfulness YET Dr. Oz has dyed gray hair, wrinkles, and his skin does not look youthful.

There is NO MONEY in finding a way to reverse gray hair; the money is in the hair dye.  Go to any beauty supply store and the shelves are stocked with dye for gray hair.
By Hairy2012 - 10/19/2012 8:04:38 PM
When I looked up the drug and saw it was propecia; I immediately ruled it out.   If you are bald and suddenly grow hair, seems interesting it would come in colored and not gray.
By wisdom1st - 2/25/2014 10:53:43 AM
Prestige93 - the link below shows a product that has acetyl hexapeptide 1 as an ingredient, which I have been led to believe is melitane. There are two other products called Black Night and Paint it Black which also contain this ingredient.  I would be willing to bet there are more. 

http://www.devotedcreations.com/indoor_tanning_lotions/paulyd/after_party.shtml

There was a link to Lucas Meyer posted on this forum, and it referenced Melitane. I could be wrong, but it appeared to me that Melitane is a trade name for a specific product that combats gray hair. It's confusing because if Melitane is acetyl hexapeptide 1, then how can it be a trade name when other companies/products are using it?  Also, there was no link on that ad with reference on purchasing the product. Strange.

@anthony - I see your point about using DMSO plus sodium bicarbonate, but I am not qualified to answer. Another thought, why not dilute natural catalase into DMSO, and then apply. Although DMSO is not FDA approved for the most part, many people have used it with great success for various remedies. I could be wrong in this statement, but I think MnChloride is the solvent used in pseudocatalase, and sodium bicarbonate is the acting agent to breakdown H202 into water and oxygen.

@Pseudocatalase - Can you provide any insight on the above. Would DMSO deactivate natural catalase or sodium bicarbonate? Would natural catalase disturb PC-KUS if added? If not, could it be effective?
By Señorgringo - 10/7/2013 1:49:09 AM
You guys may remember me - I'm the one who bought about eight bottles of Depo-Melanin and shipped them to Spain (at much expense). Did the H2O2 test as recommended by depomelanin. Result: Absolutely nothing - nada - it's dead Jim. I did not see a single bubble forming so the product either got ruined in transport or never worked to begin with. Although using the product every single day twice I have not seen any change whatsoever.

Have been in contact with depomelanin and have ordered the powder so I can mix it myself. It's very refreshing to communicate with someone who is completely transparent and actually created the product to cure a personal condition. The saga continues - will update when I see results...
By DDye - 5/16/2014 2:21:29 PM
Welcome to the Forums!

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 9/11/2013 4:21:41 AM
To Señorgringo,

Would you please direct us to the negative data concerning EDTA that you came across?

To Jcoireangus,

Derma-rollers are painful!

D Dye
Moderator
By brm - 11/1/2013 9:55:47 AM
Jcoireangus (11/1/2013)
One difference with Viaguard is that they are a legitimate company with a lengthy product line. The red flag is that depo-melanin is a radical departure  from their other products which seem to revolve around DNA testing. But I was willing to try their product because of that reputation. 
I'm fairly sure depo-melanin is working in a very limited way for me. But the results are so poor that I do t recommend it to anyone. My experiment ends once I finish what I first ordered. 
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
 Jcoireangus, since you're the only one who reports some results, can we press you again for posting some photos? Because what you judge as minimal progress could be viewed by others as enough to buy the product. Please can you manage a way to post some pix (through some sharing pix website whose links you would attach)?... That would be great.
By Plover - 11/17/2010 8:31:35 AM
I have taken chromium for many years and nothing happened with regard to recoloring hair. I think maybe it is just genetic. I started seeing a few gray hairs in my 30's.  I would not suspect that the hair salons or cosmetic industry are interested in a really permanent color.
By stefanovic - 1/2/2014 3:04:33 AM
Thanks a lot, Pseudocatalase.

Off topic: I've known a couple of people having used melanotan on a constant basis for almost 10 years, having had regular bloodchecks and everything was fine. The few horror stories online have generally nothing to do with the use of melanotan itself. Don't want to promote anything but it's just something I've noticed and I'm of course no specialist.


You say: the powder comes with instructions. So, do I have to buy anything to mix it with except for the Neribas?
Does pseudocatalase protect against further greying too?
By Hairy2012 - 10/16/2012 7:47:49 AM
I agree with Stargazer's post.  When a claim is made, I do a generalized internet search for good AND bad reviews.  When all the good reviews sound like they are written by the same person, you realize a lie is being stated.

Not hair related, but I was researching a doctor for a procedure.  I did a google search and the same answer to a question about the efficacy of the procedure came up on several web pages.  I called the Dr.'s office and asked how all the posts about his surgery have the same story: son in TN, had procedure, now miraculously recovered.  After a day or so the office manager emails me and stated: several google alerts came to the office asking an answer to that same question so she just responded.  Now, the questions were on numerous different sites made by different people.  How in the world would google know to alert their office about a question about an eye procedure?

The doctor may be a good doctor, but posting the same lie on the internet reduces your credibility by at least 70%.  With reduced credibility, you have to have proof something works. 

No one can produce proof that FO-TI works.  If FO TI worked, George Clooney and all the stars dying their hair would be using it.
By Tonifromafar - 9/20/2014 12:39:02 PM
After the blackstrap molasses, PABA, some rice by-product, Depo Melanin and whatever I forget to mention after years of failure in reversing the gray hai, I've decided to order the PC Kus powder to the seller that Slider has posted along with Xanthan Gum since it's in the instructions this seller provides in order to prepare the lotion mixing both things with distilled water.

I don't understand how Xanthan gum and distilled water can help the PC Kus to seep through the skin barrier but I'm assuming tha the model who's in the pictures followed those directions.

Whatever improvement I notice (or lack of) I`ll make it public here. No hope whatsoever anyway.
By Zeno - 2/22/2014 9:41:13 AM
A VERY OLD (1967) paper regarding MELITANE active ingredient MSH:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v49/n3/full/jid1967143a.html

"Effect of the Alpha Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone on Mammalian Hair Colors1

David Clive and Richard Snell MD, PhD

1 From the Section of Dermatology, Department of Medicine and the Department of Anatomy, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut

Received 12 April 1967.


SUMMARY(1) The effect of clipping and MSH on hair color has been studied in mature male guinea pigs.

(2) Hair samples were obtained from the scalp and anterior abdominal wall at monthly intervals for 3 months. The hairs were mounted on slides and hair color counts were performed.

(3) Clipping increased the proportion of dark to light colored hairs in the majority ofMSH AND HAIR COLOR321the animals and this effect was seen to be greatest in the scalp of the red animals and the anterior abdominal wall of the black animals. In a few of the animals the opposite effect was noted.

(4) Alpha MSH increased the proportion of dark to light colored hairs, and this effect was greatest in the black animals.

(5) It was concluded that the process of clipping can influence follicular melanogenesis and that alpha MSH stimulates melanogenesis in a manner similar to that seen in epidermal melanocytes."

Strange that it took almost 50 years to  come up with a anti gray hair product based on MSH ...

TO LEF :

LEF sells cosmetics. Why not developing a anti gray hair shampoo combining MSH, pseudocatalase, etc. ? It would be a blockbuster and could boost LEFs cash flow enormously ... What do u think ?



By stefanovic - 9/9/2014 6:10:53 AM
Over here almost all doctors say: it simply doesn't work unless you believe in it.  It has never helped for me because I only dare to fully believe in stuff once I've experienced it. I see it working for people easily believing in stuff, but more stuff like headaches, earaches,....Things you can't really measure.
Stuff like melitane, LLLT,...seem to have some background and could help people but if we're going to come up with expensive homeopathic therapies and people only lose tons of money on it, it would not be a great evolution IMHO.
By wisdom1st - 11/5/2013 10:34:33 AM
Senorgringo,

Thanks for the post/links on the results of the hydrogen peroxide test with regards to the two products. 

I am interpreting Jcoireangus experience with Depo as unscuccessful because I believe he would continue using it if he thought it worked. One would be a fool to employ the product based on his experience alone.  
By EN8686 - 6/26/2014 2:15:06 PM
So I randomly plucked a grey hair today because it was sticking out and annoying me...and what do you know, the root turned out to be black! Couldn't believe my eyes.

The only thing I've been doing for the last month or so is taking the LEF SODzyme and wolfeberry to boost internal catalase so maybe it has been working. 

Hopefully it is a good sign. I'll continue taking the supps and probably try the the new Pseudocatalse product.

If anyone knows how to post pics on here, I'll post one. The root is very black and noticeable.
By prestige93 - 4/28/2014 7:52:56 AM
Hello guys.
I just want to tell you, to forget the neribas cream for hair. Its like you put super glue on your hair. Trust me, i toke 5 days to rip that off from my hair.
By xtian - 12/23/2011 12:53:51 PM
Gaizz (12/23/2011)
I have not seen any results....Sad


well, it's still early... keep going...
By stefanovic - 9/18/2014 4:54:22 AM
EN8686: you have the talent to make stressed people even make more miserable with your posts. You have no experience with the therapies I suggested and only want to force big researchers to do something instead of doing your own testing and see how it goes. Most people I talked to having used LLLT used it for baldness in the first place, they had no intention to reverse greying. It's indeed a lot of money and if you don't want to test it, fine, but don't convince other people to stay away from it if it can help them unless you have a good alternative that can help.
By StarGazer2 - 8/22/2011 3:35:54 PM
http://www.emaxhealth.com/6705/adrenaline-culprit-behind-going-gray

Adrenaline the culprit behind going gray

"The old fairytale about stress or grief turning your hair white has just been given a truth boost. Forthcoming research from Duke University’s Robert Lefkowitz explains how stress hormones impact your body’s ability to heal itself, from merely cosmetic conditions to life-threatening malignancies.

At center stage is the widely known stress hormone adrenaline. This “fight or flight” hormone causes damage that may eventually lead to a variety of conditions from the superficial, such as grey hair, to the serious, such as cancer. . . "
By tellurium - 2/19/2014 12:09:04 PM
I monitored a small but very real benefit when I first started taking resveratrol a few years ago. Watching closely over time I noticed a regrowth of receding hair line of one quarter to one half inch and intergrowth of dark hairs turning white or solid gray areas into a salt and pepper mix. It was limited but real. I'm trying time release resveratrol next along with pterostilbene. A renewed change effect would be welcome.
By EN8686 - 9/13/2014 10:44:46 AM
The thing is, there's massive amounts of money that goes into treating depression but something like this (and baldness) can cause massive depression. Why not put the resources necessary into
something like this that can be a root cause of depression in people. 

Grey hair in your 20's and early 30's is just wrong.
By stefanovic - 12/18/2013 3:08:37 PM
Thanks for all the nice comments.


where do you order pseudocatalase? How do you use it and how much does it cost?

Has anyone used products like grayban?

In the Netherlands they sell a new product named bionnex:

Maybe some experts here can check out the ingredients:

http://www.bionnex.net/
By DDye - 8/14/2013 12:51:35 PM
A request for assistance from Life Extension has been submitted in regard to the fact that you are unable to post a photo.
By Young Einstein - 11/26/2010 6:28:41 PM

Smile Liposomal Catalase Smile

Here is a new lead for a possible remedy.

In theory, if we can get Catalase into the follicle, then it can neutralize the peroxide and restore the melanin production. This might be done with a topical DMSO and Catalase blend; however, oral catalase does not work because it is not well absorbed.

BUT oral Catalase might work if it is in a Liposome.

Recently a lot of people have been experimenting with homemade Liposomal Vitamin C, which is absorbed far better than regular oral vitamin C. Supposedly, liposomal vitamin C is as well-absorbed as intravenous injection.

Here are the basic instructions for making liposomal vitamin C:

  1. Mix 1 cup of water with 3 Tbsp of lecithin granules (not liquid lecithin). Shake vigorously in a jar and let it sit for several hours to fully fully dissolve.
  2. Mix ¼ cup of water with a heaping Tbsp of pure Sodium Ascorbate powder (this is 15 grams).
  3. Combine the ingredients in an ultrasonic cleaner, and run the cleaner for 10 to 20 minutes  (cleaners available at Harbor Freight for $25 to $70).

More info here: http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/62

If you substitute catalase for the vitamin C, you might need to adjust the instructions. The liposomes should deliver intact catalase to the liver.

Another option is topical liposomal catalase.


By StarGazer2 - 5/4/2012 10:54:28 AM
Your history (3 visits here), all three of which solicit your product, prove you haven't been reading this forum for years.

But I'm sure you'll be back to repeat your solicitation down the road.
By jomic - 1/30/2013 7:04:57 PM
Transpower (9/16/2012)
I've been hoping that MSM (at a dosage of 2000 mg/day) would work to return my mustache color back to brown from "salt and pepper", because MSM keeps the rest of my hair and skin feeling so fantastic.  So far, I've noticed a little darkening of my mustache, but nothing major--yet. One other thing about MSM:  it has lessened my appetite somewhat, so I have fewer food cravings.


I've been taking MSM to offset runners knee pain and it seems to be working. MSM can reduce osteoarthritis pain because of the sulfur which is believed to strengthen collagen. Haven't come across any studies on MSM and hair color or skin quality.. it hasn't had any effect on my hair color or my appetite. You seem to be taking a much stronger dose at 2000 mg/day. Mine is joint solutions MSM 500 - suggested dosage 1-3 caps daily. I generally take 1-2 per day. At 2000 mg/day your joints must be feeling fantastic too.
By wisdom1st - 1/2/2014 1:58:31 PM
At Pseudocatalase and for Stefonovic's reading - I think Stefonovic is under the impression that you do not ship the already mixed product to Belgium, and my guess is that you do. If you clear this up, it may be of some aid to both.
By Charlybrown - 10/29/2013 1:45:31 PM
Hi everyone,

I've been using pseudocatalase for over a month now (puchased from pseudocatalase.com), applying it twice daily on my temples, chin and upper chest.

As recommended, I also expose these areas to UV for 20 minutes 3 times a week.

So far I haven't noticed any improvement Sad

My plan is to keep trying for another 3 months (if I don't run out of money or motivation until then ^^)

I'll report here regularly.

Cheers
By Ladd - 12/16/2013 2:54:23 PM

You mention that it would aid in applying pseudo-catalase, and you've gained my interest. I have had a little success with pseudo-catalase. As I mentioned before, I've seen pigmentation at the roots of some hair follicles. There are a few more that I've noticed since I originally posted.  Easy for me to tell because they stick out like a sore thumb (all gray in these areas).

Where I've noticed this pigmentation is at the hairline above the forehead. I've been applying once per day, and am not getting much UV rays. I've also seen a few in other sporadic places, but the hairline seems to have the most in one area. Been applying to facial hair as well, but cannot see any changes. If some of these facial follicles pigmented in proportion to the hairline above my forehead, there would be no way of telling, for I have way too many dark hairs there already.

I think the product is more effective on the hairline because it is getting a direct application. The product is getting absorbed by my hair before it makes it to the scalp in other parts. That is what brings me back to a dermaroller.  How does it work? Would it help me get the product right to my scalp without being absorbed into the hair?  What is an appoximate cost of a dermaroller? I have no intention of shaving my head. 

I remember somebody asked if a topical product would be more effective on a shaved head. I would think it would be most effective on hair that is about 1/4" long.  The follicle itself would not absorb all the product. 


You bring up some great points which are definitely overlooked.

Shaved hair without question has two advantages. Direct UV rays to the scalp and a much easier path for the product to reach the scalp.

How long is your hair?
By EN8686 - 9/29/2014 11:01:35 AM
That's interesting, I wonder if it would apply to non-vitiligo grey hair.
By DDye - 10/10/2014 6:57:38 AM
More like minoxidil!
By stefanovic - 6/16/2013 8:24:41 AM
I'm a redhead with some greys and some time ago a young pharmacist living in my neighbourhoud experimented with forskolin 20 pct.

She gave me a small bottle she created in the lab of her boss and I applied it for several weeks. I saw new growth that was dark. Unfortunately that pharmacist never wanted to give me the formula as her boss found out she experimented behind her back. I ran out of the gel after a couple of weeks.

It's a bit frustrating. I know it works on the pigmentation level and I eagerly wanted to create a new bottle. I remember it looked like a gel and was light brown but once you had a applied it, it wasnt dirty anymore.

Maybe there are a couple of good formulators over here or at least someone that could tell me where I can find online formulators ( or people with knowledge of it).  Guess it's not enough to add some forskolin to your shampoo or skin cream. It's all about penetration and dosage.
By healer56 - 2/23/2011 6:44:12 PM
In brief what to do to reverse grey hair into black colour.
By StarGazer2 - 11/12/2013 7:56:14 AM
@ pseudocatalase - you're a big person to not be offended or get defensive with the skepticism. 

Good luck with your results.
By Hairy2012 - 11/11/2012 5:18:37 PM
DanRo (11/11/2012)
This guy says he re-darkened his hair using Rice Bran Syrup. FWIW I've been taking rice bran dissolved in water for a couple of years for the extra bran and B vitamins and it hasn't done a thing for any gray hairs but I thought I'd post this anyway for the information:

http://www.facebook.com/primedhealth.international

===

Thanks for letting us know you have already taken the rice bran.

I have tried to follow up on the "cure" information and it seems to me that they are very unlikely to prescribe a pill to reverse gray.  According to the experts, the hair dye companies would end up bankrupt.  I personally disagree with this assessment.  80% of caucasian women dye their hair blonde for the fun of it, not because it is gray.

Also, many women start wearing wigs (and hair pieces) once the hair becomes gray because it becomes too hard to color it successfully.  If they can keep the hair from going gray, many people would still color just for the fun of it.
By Jcoireangus - 8/23/2013 8:39:10 PM
I said I'd nearly finished the FIRST of 2 bottles. I'd say each bottle is good for about 6 weeks based on how I apply it.

I think I'm probably using 2 ml each day, on average. (40 drops)

Wally123 (8/23/2013)
Not sure how u can use nearly two bottles in 29 days.
Instructions call for only a few drops
By troppo - 12/15/2013 11:08:06 AM
Dermarolling is great and using a smaller dermaroller (.2mm or so) should help with pseudocatalase absorption.

Question for all:
I just discovered a white hair that was white but has pigment at the root.
Pigment is not super dark but definitely not white and this is only on the bottom 1/4 of the hair.

It is my understanding that white happens at the root - so...

Is this reason to be hopeful that repigmentation is beginning?
By EN8686 - 7/15/2014 9:12:52 PM
That's more for hair growth, no?
By xnlife - 7/11/2013 7:28:42 PM
proper nutritional and a good vitamins really help Am 54 and Grey is nonstarter none 

xnlife is to extend life
By DDye - 9/18/2014 12:23:01 PM
There will be a solution. Since Gleevec repigmented some people we know it's doable.
By DDye - 5/6/2012 2:15:09 PM
Raveena, the Forums has given you the benefit of the doubt or your posts would not have been approved. 

D Dye
Moderator
By dave - 6/29/2013 8:54:38 PM
Have been using it for about 3 weeks, nothing yet.
By Slider - 12/10/2010 9:11:46 AM
http://davidcooleyonline.com/asea-cellular-balance-this-may-be-the-most-important-news-you-will-hear-all-year/

Anyone tried this?
By stefanovic - 6/24/2014 1:56:22 PM
I'd say I see more "very dark" roots.
By wisdom1st - 1/14/2014 10:05:07 AM
Pseudocatalase - would the carrier need to have EDTA in order for it to work?

Stefanovic - Rather than experimenting with shampoos, you may want to try conditioners. They seem to be milder.

Another seller of the powder states that  a Xanthan gum mix with distilled water would work, but it will start decomposing after three weeks. So you would only use a portion of the ingredients each time you make some. He also states that it does not need to be removed from the hair once it's in because it will not leave a greasy look. I cannot confirm it's effectiveness. I suppose one could do the H202  test on the product as Pseudocatalase suggests.
By Ace_Road - 8/12/2013 5:22:32 PM
Jcoireangus, dude you rock!  Thanks for keeping us posted on your progress.  I'll be eager to see how your before and afters look as you progress.  I can't help but be eternally hopeful something will finally work...
By Ladd - 11/29/2013 1:21:42 PM
@wisdom1st
Just for clarification: You're saying only 1% of your hair is currently gray?

Have you noticed any change of pigment in the hair that isn't gray?

@Pseudocatalase
Have you ever read the L'oreal gray hair patent? http://www.google.com/patents/US8445004

Keep in mind it was filed before the H202 discovery. However, there are some interesting tidbits within. I would like to know if you gather anything from it using the knowledge/experience you have on the subject?

@Truth and Beuty
"3- or depo can penetrate the skin, but hair coloring pigments are dead already, and can not be revitalized, what does scientists say about this??? if we get rid of excess h2o2, can hair pigments be built again??? "

This is the most interesting question of all. Is removing H202 from the hair follicle enough to get fully pigmented hair? What if someone used pseudocatalase for 1, 2, 3, 4, or even 5 years? Would the hair regain full pigment regardless of age? Will it take some sort of cosmetic treatment outside of H202 removal? Pharmaceutical drugs? What if someone used pseudocatalase BEFORE they turned gray? Would it stop the graying process from ever occurring or at least slow it down? These are things we don't know (although maybe someone somewhere working on the problem does).

I'll be ordering Pseudocatalase's product shortly (I was travelling) and will report on it. I'm very healthy, far from middle age, and have less than 1% "bleached hair", so I have some advantages. From what I've read and gathered on the subject I predict it will greatly slow the process down or stop it all together.
By DDye - 4/25/2014 6:42:58 AM
EB, we are glad you decided to join us.

D Dye
Moderator
By JenJ - 2/17/2013 10:45:24 AM
Info on the Grey Away - Claude Bell product on a UK website.

By Gaizz - 11/2/2012 4:13:48 AM
DanRo, any results with Careprost?
By Ladd - 1/28/2014 9:09:40 AM
@stefanovic
I know Belgium is a cloudy place, but it is not a cave. Surely you can find AT LEAST a few days every month to get some sun? There are cloudier places in U.S. and it's possible to do so.

Also, the normal color hair you have doesn't need sun exposure. Pseudocatalase, in theory, should be enough to at least slow down the graying process and maintain color.

@daveI think it's safe to say you should see better results during the spring/summer/fall months. If you have silver/gray hair sun exposure matters less than if you have white hair.

*****
At some point it's necessary to "let go" and just see what happens.
By EN8686 - 7/6/2014 12:02:40 PM
Wanted to let the board know that I purchased the Nucyte product (lotion) and began using it last Thursday. I will keep everyone update on (hopeful) progress.

On sidenote, Pseudocatalase's ebay page shows that a substantial amount of the product has been sold (the old pseudocatalse formula, not Nucyte). It would be nice to maybe report on the percentage of these people (and people who will now purchase the Nucyte product) that have actually responded. It would go a long way in showing exactly how effective the product actually is, since showing 2 people who responded out of hundreds that have purchased it, isn't a good indication.
By EN8686 - 4/6/2014 1:28:22 PM
Sorry Stefanovic!  It doesn't look like i'm getting any results with pseudocatalase either.
By Englishbull - 11/10/2013 2:03:30 AM
So at least some of the Depo M is actually bubbling...but it seems like just some of the recent stuff?? What were they thinking?? 

And even with doing the peroxide tests how can we know that it will actually reverse gray hair anyway?? Surely we should have been seeing SOME positive results by now?? I have pretty much lost hope because i think it is impossible to reverse!!
By Hairy2012 - 7/22/2013 8:51:46 AM
No improvement after a month and a half and the product is a pain to use; it drips down the face worse than water.
By wisdom1st - 10/13/2014 3:17:54 PM
@EN8 - I agree with DDye with regards to some people responding, where others may not. I've already posted that I've had some reversal with the PS, although nothing significant  On the other hand, Frosty, from Pseudocatalase's web site has had some reversal that may be considered significant because Pseudocatalase described him as purely white before he started the treatment.  Regardless if his hair is still mostly gray/white, it is a radical change to go from all white to having shades of pepper. According to Pseudocatalase, Frosty was elated, which I translate into significance for him.  Society has already reached the point where some have responded to different methods. When copper, blackstrap, paba, ect. are used, I believe most do not respond, but I do believe that for whatever reason, that there are a minority who have responded to some of these.

So to take DDYE's answer further, I think there are going to be future treatments in which a greater amounts of people respond, not just a small minority.  I think the DNA method would be the only sure fire-proof way in which all respond, but that would be anyone's guess if that day will come soon.  There is a lot of money to be made if somebody comes up with an effective solution, so there is a big reason for innovators to be motivated. We already know that some work has been done, for we have seen mice lacking pigment in their hairs, only to be fully pigmented.  
By Nomis99 - 3/25/2014 1:36:08 AM
I have just purchased some litmus paper from Ebay @ 99p !

I do intend to try out different solutions this way but would also be helpful if anyone already had a suitable cream or solution and possibly the name of it especially here in the UK ?
By John2004 - 10/2/2011 8:32:26 PM
U.S. Patent 7,875,302 B2 "Methods of Using grape Seed Extract to Simulate Tyrosinase gene expression". Date of Patent Jan. 25, 2011, Inventor  Lane A. Duvel, et. al.  

You can read the above patent via google patents. I found it searching for grey hair on google scholar. I think this is mainly a topical treatment for grey hair. It looks like grape seed extract is the main ingredient and that's interesting. The patent was assigned to "Access business group international" so someone like it enough to acquire  it.  




P.S. I checked into it and it looks like Access business group international is a division of http://www.alticor.com/ which is related to Amway Laugh

http://dietarysupplements.nlm.nih.gov/dietary/manufDetail.jsp?contain=01002







By oscar2u - 2/12/2013 3:09:15 AM
jomic (2/6/2013)
DDye (10/20/2010)
This thread is one of the longest running on Life Extension Forums and has been called the most informative discussion on this subject on the web!  However, despite the name, "How to reverse grey hair," no one yet has the answer . . .  Nevertheless, you can learn about the research, the trials and the failures, the hypotheses and the hype with a group of individuals dedicated to get to the bottom of this aging-associated phenomenon.  

Or, are you one of the many men and women who embrace their silver hair color?  And does grey hair really make one look older? 

 


Ok, let's get to the root of the problem (no pun intended). Has anyone considered B12 deficiency? You might want to check this out:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/397583-vitamin-b12-deficiency-symptoms-gray-hair/


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, grey hair does make you look older.   ...Oscar
By StarGazer2 - 10/2/2011 5:34:20 AM
Well, folks, we finally have an update on the L'oreal research on grey hair.

There's good news and bad news.  Here is the link:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/loreal-develops-daily-medication-that-wont-turn-a-hair-grey/story-e6frg8y6-1226156432573

The Sunday Times (London) has the original story, but they require an online subscription. 

Here's the good news - if this would be considered a supplement, drug trials would not be necessary.  If the FDA deemed it to be a drug, we're looking at 10 more years.  So, if it's just a fruit extract, that would be good.

Here are the negatives:
1) It was almost 10 years ago that this L'Oreal reseracher, Bruno Benard, said they will be coming out with a solution for grey hair within a few years.   Every couple years, he keeps promising something...and the timetable just gets shoved back several years. 

2) Benard said a few years ago they were developing this breakthrough for shampoos.  So why now switch to a pill, which would take longer to develop?   In fact, I think they even have a searchable patent on the shampoo additive that Benard said they were developing a few years ago.  Maybe the research fizzled in the lab. 

3) We won't even get full details unil May 2013 at a dermtology conference.  And knowing Benard, if he says it may be out in 4 years, you can multiply that timetable by a factor of 3. 

4) It doesn't sound like this pill will reverse hair that has already gone grey.  Hopefully I won't be 100% grey by the time this thing comes out (if it ever does).

5) Benard seems to love getting his name in the news.  Every couple years he puts out statements on his grey hair research and we've not nothing to show for it. 

At least they're still working on something and at least they are now experimenting with it on humans rather than mice.  So that's a positive. 

Now if we can just get Stanley Terlecky  http://extlifesciences.com/  to finally update his research on grey hair.  It's been 2.5 years since we've had any news on their research, and they don't answer any emails.  They bragged about their technology and how it was coming to the market.  I've seen many outfits do that and nothing ever pans out.
By jomic - 4/4/2014 6:01:32 AM
RE: Petition: LEF anti gray hair product

I think this would be great for the male population.. not so sure about women.
By Jcoireangus - 8/30/2013 4:04:09 PM
I too am discouraged by the seeming lack of results experienced by many. So I'm keeping my experiment going but simple. My temples and chin are very grey and the hair is short. My experiment is limited to these areas alone. This will extend my supply for several months. If I eventually see results, then I'll buy more and use it elsewhere. 

I'm about 6 weeks in. Although I can't say for sure... I do seem less grey on my temples. The hair used to be almost transparent. I now seem to have quite a few black hairs and grey hair. This still isn't a big enough change to rule out wishful thinking though. I really never looked as closely as I'm doing now!

Good luck fellow experimenters. 
By Señorgringo - 11/5/2013 12:28:53 AM
"Senorgringo - I believe if you have followed this message board thread and read all of jcoireangus' posts, you would realize that he is very objective in his observations.  I think your comment about his observations being wishful thinking are off-base.

I am probably overly optimistic (almost to the point of being gullible) when I try these new avenues for gray hair reversal, but I don't think I'll ever come to a definitive conclusion until I see very clear results.  In the end, I believe most of the posters on this board are also too objective to be persuaded by wishful thinking."

So in other words you would continue using an ineffective product until you see results? That level of thinking (and self deception) is the very reason why shysters get away with selling snake poison. Which answers some of the musings of a poster earlier in this thread.

Have you used the product for more than three months? If no, then by all means continue. If yes then do you see results? If no then you may as well abandon the product as the directions promised results after 12 weeks. You can be conservative and continue until 16 weeks but if there are no results there won't be any. And by 'results' I mean clearly visible changes that would show up in a photograph. If there are results then once again continue by all means.

FWIW - I personally have used the Vitiligo product for over three months. No results whatsoever. THEN I saw pseudocatalase's instructions on how to perform an H2O2 test and did that with a brand new bottle I had stored in the fridge. No bubbles whatsoever - meaning the product did not separate H2O2 into water and oxygen. I ordered pseudocatalase's product since, mixed it into a solution, and repeated the test. A LOT of activity - lots of bubbles. If the theory is supposed to work in practice then the product needs to satisfy a pertinent test - very simple. Otherwise you are simply wasting your time.
By DDye - 9/17/2013 2:32:46 PM
Thanks to all the members who have made it the best!

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 3/3/2011 7:38:48 AM
This article has some interesting information.
By gotsomegray - 10/8/2013 12:32:26 PM
Ha!  Jim - I just started the intermittent fasting about a month ago.  This is my 5th week, and I really like it.  I'm not doing it so much for weight loss as I am for the cellular repair advantages, but I think it is a great weight loss plan.

Still no depo-melanin results for me either.
By stefanovic - 6/13/2014 5:31:24 AM
I wonder what that TRIOCOMPLEX CX17 is?
The other PC-melitane product seems to be very expensive and you never know what amounts they have used ( probably too low)
By wisdom1st - 9/26/2013 2:17:33 PM
PseudoCatalse 

You appear to be knowledgeable about the science of pigmentation loss, and I've been thinking about getting your product through Ebay. There are a few questions I have, one being from your last post. You mentioned, "For certain, some people will not respond at all."  Why are you certain? Also, 'some' is a relative word, and I could only attribute that to less than 50% with regards to your statement.  Could you give a more educated guess on the percentage of people it would not work on?  

Is the shampoo for the hair atop the head only, and the cream for everywhere else?  You mentioned to leave the shampoo in the hair for 5 minutes and then rinse.  What if you left in for an hour?  Could you give a little more detail on that subject. The shampoo is an 8oz bottle. How many applications should a consumer get out of one bottle? You said to apply twice a day.  You've stated it has already begun working on your colleagues, and they have had some reversal of gray hair.  Has there been any more progression of reversal since you first publicly posted?

Do you stand by your product 100%, and truly believe it works in reversing gray hair back to its natural color? I know you have stated that it is too early to tell if it will work to bring all pigmentation back to every follicle that has lost it, but what is your gut feeling, honestly? Nobody will hold you to it because you have not tested that far yet, but I would think these fine people in this forum would appreciate your opinion on that. Thank you for your honesty, and I for one do not feel like you've intruded into this forum. 
By EN8686 - 4/18/2014 8:24:04 AM
If hair loss victims feel that way, then they should just go out and get a wig. 
By cylonjim - 9/27/2012 1:49:18 PM
Beefster, can you tell me what liquid DMSO brand you are using?  Ironically this knowledgeable guy at my nearest health products store indicated that your latest experience with the liquid version might be the case.

Thanks for the heads up.
By xtian - 9/14/2014 10:40:15 AM
well, a person who glues a penny on your stomach is not an homeopath, is a charlatan... what were YOU thinking?
By xtian - 9/30/2013 12:50:24 PM
16 weeks on depo melanin, no changes
By stefanovic - 3/12/2014 10:22:42 AM
@pseudocatalase: thanks a lot. I also dye my hair so I'm a bit focussed on the roots

@Nomis99: great to see you here again. Sartios described something like a lotion would be best. Something that doesn't leave spots on your sheets at night. The most important thing is the penetration and comfort.
By stefanovic - 2/19/2014 8:11:28 AM
email has been sent ( @ pseudocatalase)


I saw another doctor today and he noticed that my B12, folic acid, copper and zinc havent been checked. The doctor I saw before was so into the cortisol story that she forgot about the rest ( that's truly what many doctors are like over here, they only hear what they wanna hear)
That's so typical. I bet many of you have been through the same kinda situations.

I hope some people ( also blondes to see the effect on lighter hair) can start with the melitame soon. 
By stefanovic - 1/28/2014 4:41:22 AM
Ladd (1/27/2014)
@stefanovic

The full effectiveness of pseudocatalase is unknown. It hasn't been used long enough. Regardless, the theory is solid. It should at the very least greatly slow the process down.

The lighter the hair the more important UVB exposure is. It force the pigment to return.

Apparently wheatgrass has worked for some people, although it's the minority. If it worked for everyone we wouldn't be having this discussion. With that being said, learning how to deal with stress in a positive manner, working out, and eating right is still a good idea.


Thanks but on both sides of my head it's gone almost completely white in a very short period of time.
On the UVB exposure? What do you do when you live in a country where the sun never shines? Does it make sense that I keep using the shampoo if I get no sun exposure. On ebay the seller described for grey reversal: normal daily UV exposure, I just don't know how much. There's no way I'm going to tanning saloons and have an old wrinkled skin.
By wisdom1st - 8/26/2013 2:22:28 PM
It is also possible that the product works but with very limited results. We may find after two months that we have a few more pigmented hairs and perhaps we'll have slowed the greying process. 

But as others have pointed out, this is the first time there is real science to support the idea of a cure for grey hair. If not depo-melanin, then maybe another product down the road.  


Right on Jcoireangus. You are catching on. Beefster is well ahead of us all because he knows firsthand that the change can happen because he has applied homemade stuff in the past with some success. He believes a stronger product could be made, and he's thinking that Depo is stronger than the one he used to make. But he told us all it is going to take time.  Englishbull is understanding it as well. 

Without trying to repeat myself too much, I'm hoping that Viagard is actually putting the ingredients that they say they are putting in Depo, for that is pseudocatalse. In a nutshell, vitilgo patients treated with e pseudocatalse that Dr. Shallreuter provided, have had substantial improvements in getting pigmentation back in their skin. The reason they lost or never had pigmentation is the same reason why hair color is lost - too much hydrogen peroxide. The pictures are amazing when you see the before and afters. This is why people like Englishbull, Beefster, and myself are excited, because we know an effective product is hovering. We're just not sure if Depo is it. Even if Depo works, something may work better down the line. As far as we know, Dr. Shallreuter has not released her pseudocatalase to the market, and that is the one that we are confident will work. That is what I was expressing in my last post. The marketeers, entrepreneurs, and greedy SOB;s are watching. I would be surprised if there were not many labs working to make a very effective product. Dr. Shallreuter has shown the world that gray hair can be reversed.  We all know the story of the 4 minute mile barrier. Once it was broken, it was broke several times over. That is because people no longer deemed it impossible. Viagard has made the first move to the market with a topical solution to combat the peroxide. Who will be next? If a multi-billion dollar company were to gain interest, I think we'd see that egg cracked quickly. 

If you have not read Beefsters posts, I suggest you go back and read them.  
By Ace_Road - 12/8/2013 3:35:11 PM
Very interesting stuff DanRo.  I had never heard of Melitane before, but after reading into it this looks like something that has actual scientific studies performed on it specifically looking at its affect on gray hair with results.

Here's a link to a study done on Melitane I found very encouraging:  rps.mui.ac.ir/index.php/jrps/article/download/750/732

It actually states that one product on the market showed no results, while the standard peptide Melitane showed considerable results.

Here's a couple quotes from it:
"White hair average for lotion containing Melitane considerably is decreased in comparison with control lotion. This effect is not seen for Maidenhair lotion. Based on results of dermatotoxicological tests, all lotion was without side effects for eye and skin and all shampoo was mild irritant (similar to other mild shampoo in the market)."

"These findings confirm that Melitane is a melanogenesis stimulator and exhibits anti- graying property. But the products were made just by Maidenhair extract had no anti- graying effect."

So my question is has anyone here had any experience using Melitane?
By stefanovic - 10/3/2014 5:30:00 AM
After trying to contact Mr. Bernard in the past, he once sent me a letter saying, please stop contacting me without really saying what was going on. I don't think that's a way you deal with people.
By StarGazer2 - 7/29/2013 7:00:13 PM
anybody taking before & after pics of their trial?
By BoB.org - 3/24/2014 11:31:52 AM
PH levels can be measured with litmus paper : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litmus

As for mixing it etc I also would not be to sure would love for someone that has tried it succesfully to share how they mixed and processed it etc.

   BoB
By Zeno - 4/10/2011 5:46:47 AM
How can we boost the levels of catalase in our hair foliccles ?

Can GLISODIN suplementation (wich suposedly boosts SOD/catalase) have any effect on the catalase levels inside the hair follicles ?

From:Wikipedia, Catalase

" Grey hair

According to recent scientific studies, low levels of catalase may play a role in the greying process of human hair. Hydrogen peroxide is naturally produced by the body and catalase breaks it down. If there is a dip in catalase levels, hydrogen peroxide cannot be broken down. This causes the hydrogen peroxide to bleach the hair from the inside out. Scientists believe this finding may someday be incorporated into anti-greying treatments for aging hair."

# ^ "Why Hair Turns Gray Is No Longer A Gray Area: Our Hair Bleaches Itself As We Grow Older". Science News. ScienceDaily. 2009-02-24. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090223131123.htm. Retrieved 2009-03-01.
# ^ Hitti M (2009-02-25). "Why Hair Goes Gray". Health News. WebMD. http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/news/20090225/why-hair-goes-gray. Retrieved 2009-03-01.
# ^ Wood JM, Decker H, Hartmann H, Chavan B, Rokos H, Spencer JD, Hasse S, Thornton MJ, Shalbaf M, Paus R, Schallreuter KU (February 2009). "Senile hair graying: H2O2-mediated oxidative stress affects human hair color by blunting methionine sulfoxide repair". FASEB J. 23 (7): 2065–75. doi:10.1096/fj.08-125435. PMID 19237503.
By Zeno - 5/14/2014 12:14:37 PM
@stefanovic  http://lucasmeyercosmetics.com/en/products/product.php?id=45&from=cat

Thats one of the ingredients that Lucas Meyer cosmetics uses to mix it : Glycerin (and) Water (and) Dextran

"Origin

Biomimetic peptide agonist of α-MSH

INCI Name

Glycerin (and) Water (and) Dextran (and) Acetyl Hexapeptide-1

Mode of Action

  • Agonist of α-MSH
  • Stimulates melanin synthesis

Properties

  • Stimulates hair pigmentation and reverses the gray hair process
  • Induces skin pigmentation
  • Strengthens the skin’s defenses against harmful effects of UV
  • Reduces skin erythema
  • Protects and repairs DNA damage caused by UV exposure (UVA & UVB)
  • Reduces the inflammatory response

Dosage

0,5-5% "
By DanRo - 1/9/2014 8:07:01 AM
@troppo, I just contacted a distributor out of California for information regarding samples of melitane. The chemical name is Acetyl Hexapeptide-1 and has been around for several years. There's also suppliers out of China but it too is only for sale in bulk.

What we need is someone who sells it similar to matrixyl 3000 where you can purchase the pure 100% product then make your own cream or lotion. Personalformulator.com has that for $40 per ounce plus they sell the cream that you can mix it with. It's far cheaper and more reliable that way than purchasing pre-mixed creams where you don't know what's in it.
By Hairy2012 - 11/12/2012 6:40:07 AM


DanRo (11/12/2012)
Hairy2012: Rice Bran Syrup is probably like blackstrap molasses and all those Chinese herbs and berries, they work for a few but for most of us not so much.

They might be useful for premature graying but for the senile kind unlikely since genes and aging are difficult to overcome. For that stronger  remedies are needed. Love to be wrong and I posted the link hoping that maybe others reading it can say it worked for them too. So far he's the only one I've seen so for all we know he sells rice bran syrup on the side and is looking to increase business. 

===
Thanks for the additional information.  I just hate that more neutral sources don't give testimonials on these products.
By troppo - 2/7/2014 2:17:58 PM
Well guys, speaking of melitane I just received my order from the UK of "Sun and Protect" by Pizbuin
http://www.pizbuin.com/en/our-products/tan-protect/ 

I'm throwing that into the protocol starting today!



For us US-based guys, I found it on the UK ebay site and they will ship to US (free shipping actually), check it out:
By Hairy2012 - 9/25/2012 4:25:01 AM
DDye (10/20/2010)
This thread is one of the longest running on Life Extension Forums and has been called the most informative discussion on this subject on the web!  However, despite the name, "How to reverse grey hair," no one yet has the answer . . .  Nevertheless, you can learn about the research, the trials and the failures, the hypotheses and the hype with a group of individuals dedicated to get to the bottom of this aging-associated phenomenon.  

Or, are you one of the many men and women who embrace their silver hair color?  And does grey hair really make one look older? 

 


====

I think the sad answer is that gray can't be reversed, just colored.
By Englishbull - 8/16/2013 9:32:54 AM
Depo Melanin experiment started today...got my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.

Solution had no smell, and I've put straight into the fridge after use to keep cool (as instructed)

Solution was quite wet, but I didn't struggle to apply anyway!!
By Ladd - 6/10/2014 9:43:06 AM
@stefanovic

Would you be willing to post your before and after (obviously with your face blocked out for anonymity)?
By h8grey - 9/15/2014 9:46:23 AM
Hi to everyone here. I have joined the forum to try to assist and to help get some answers. I think contributors of this forum are going down the wrong path but I am 100% prepared to be proven wrong. Let me tell you my experience, hopefully it can help a few people here and get us all some better results.

About me:
44 yr old male
very fit and active
excellent blood pressure
body fat approx. 22%
6' 5" tall - fairly muscular almost bodybuilder type build
non-smoker
virtual non-drinker
thyroid level normal

I would say 30-40% of my jet black hair is now white which makes me look very, very aged. If it wasn't for this I could pass as a 30 year old. After reading some comments here I can confirm the effect with women is catastrophic, I used to be very, very successful with them but as soon as the white hair took-over from my late 30s it was like a switch had been flicked - instant zero sex appeal.

Now here is the interesting part, I have a brother who is three years older than me. He drinks heavily, smokes a little, hardly exercises and eats all kind of garbage. He was also diagnosed with a sluggish thyroid and takes thyroxin (I think that's what its called) to boost it to normal levels. The killer is he has about 3% grey - way, way, way less than me!

When my hair started turning white I thought about why this could be the case, the difference between us seems to fly in the face of all logic and conventional thinking. This caused me to narrow the issue down to a few things:

1. Circulation - Big bro is three inches shorter than me, and I don't think my circulation is that good, I am always finding my hands and feet are cold, he never has that problem. I'm sure that lack of blood supply to my scalp is one reason or THE reason my hair is so white.

I really believe circulation is one of the biggest factors in hair colour.


2. Stress, I think he is a bit more relaxed than me, his outlook on life is 'live fast die young' whereas I am more conscious of everything.

3. I used to not drink any alcohol, instead drinking Coke or Diet Coke. This contains either a ton of refined sugar or aspartame, both of which are known to leech vitamins and minerals from the body. Big bro on the other hand drinks beer and lots of it. I now strongly believe beer in moderation is a much better bet for health than virtually any soft drink. Beer after all is quite a natural drink (Stella Artois famously cite their four and only four natural ingredients).


I then went about changing my lifestyle:

OUT
Soft drinks
Processed sugar
White carbs
Processed food (as much as possible)
Shampoos, shower gels etc (full of cancer causing chemicals, just Google the ingredients)


IN
Water
Blackstrap molasses
Cocoa
Coconut oil (the cheap processed one)
Beer (social drinking)
Almond oil (for moisturizing, shaving etc)


Pretty soon I saw some dark patches of hair emerging amongst the white. I would clip my hair then say "Holy **** a dark patch"!  Here is the problem though, the process is so slow and limited I have to speed things up somehow.

You can see the dark patches on the side of my head and the latest one is in the beard.

http://s30.postimg.org/qhe3fm3sh/grey1.jpg

http://s4.postimg.org/i1palo7n1/grey2.jpg


I have started to try some ways to get more blood to the scalp, this can be done by rubbing the hair vigorously, a couple of yoga poses, an inversion table or headstands.

I did have an inversion table but I don't any more. Amazon sell them, there are also a ton of benefits with inversion, just Google them.

Moving on to blackstrap molasses - a true miracle food that can help virtually everything, again Google the benefits, it's all the good stuff in sugar cane whereas processed sugar is the crap. 20quid/bucks on Amazon will buy you enough for months and months. I think this is my main reason for patches of black hair returning. It's got to be worth adding to your diet.

Now cocoa is also a miracle food. I buy cocoa powder from the store and add it to whatever I can. I go through a tub each week (250g/9 oz).

I use as much coconut oil as possible, I buy the processed one, the raw, organic one could be better but is six times the price.




I believe these foods have made me healthier, regarding cholesterol, a good level of HDL is 1-1.3 and 'better' is 1.6 and above. Three weeks ago my doctor was staggered to find my HDL is 3, I am in London, he said I could have virtually the highest HDL of anyone in the city. Check the following link for more info.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/in-depth/cholesterol-levels/art-20048245


So where I am going with this is take some blackstrap molasses, cocoa and coconut oil AND get as much circulation to the scalp as possible. It's no use having perfect nutrition that doesn't get to your scalp. I think if everyone on this forum did this for a couple of months they would see better results than they have reported with PC and Depo Melanin.

I also used a bodybuilding supplement some time ago that turned some white hairs black but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. I will try to find out though.
By Transpower - 2/17/2013 4:29:00 AM
Most of the reviews of this product are in German, which is hard to decipher.  I've never heard of this product before, but it might be worth a shot.
By DDye - 5/7/2013 9:38:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbECIHsjqr4
By Plover - 11/11/2010 10:18:02 AM
How can I verify the tipsta (?) post about glycation?  Is it fact and are there references.
By stefanovic - 2/6/2014 5:18:20 AM



Thanks a lot.

I have an appointment with an endocrinologist mid march. Thanks for the support.

I plan on taking the ashwagandha in the mean time as it has an impact on the high cortisol. I'm just a bit confused about brand and dosage. If anyone could help, that would be great thanks already.

Is the fo-ti worth the money for this kinda problem?


I think it's a good idea to keep using the pseudocatalase also to prevent further damage in the future.
By Jcoireangus - 8/12/2013 2:52:43 PM
I remain motivated to continue testing depo-melanin on my facial hair and temples. 

It's been about twenty days. I think I have more dark hairs on my chin. It seems like I have a whole lot more just below my chin. I wasn't as gray there to start with but it seems like I'm developing a dark band of hair there. 

My temples also seem more salt and pepper and less gray. However, I still wouldn't say this is definite. It may still be wishful thinking.   I have never inspected my hair with this kind of intensity before. I could simply be noticing things that have always been there. 

What about the photos I've been taking?  In the photos, my beard definitely looks darker. Is this proof that depo-melanin is working?  No. Because the lighting and length of my facial hair stubble varies. Where the hair is longer, it looks greyer  

So I need to let my beard grow out a week or so, then take photos and compare. 

What I do know is that my chin is getting very tan. I have been applying the mixture and exposing my face to the California sun ten minutes every day. So I'm either getting a sun tan or this stuff is darkening my skin. 

Also, and I'm not sure of this, the darker hair seems to be organized in small patches about 5 mm across. My hope is that these patches will get larger and merge. 

So... Is there anyway to post photos here?
 
By Donatello65 - 5/5/2013 10:39:56 AM
More PC-KUS news - Say Bye-Bye to Gray Hair, Researchers Find Way to Reverse The Process
By Englishbull - 7/31/2013 10:10:04 AM
Beefster thanks for the insight. You certainly know your stuff about this topic. It is good that you can pass your knowledge onto us all!

I will be taking part in the experiment as soon as my stuff arrives!

It is also good to know that beefster's homemade catalase was working, so this surely proves that Viaguard are on the right track, and that this is the way forward to reverse grey hair.

Beefster I shave my head weekly, and Viaguard said this would help me to achieve results quicker. I am also only 28 and have abit of greying mainly at the temples and sides of my head. Do you think I stand a good chance on this experiment? I've also got dark hair when it grows in.
By Dodge1980 - 9/17/2014 3:53:23 AM
Can melitane be purchased in the uk? If so, where?
By stefanovic - 6/3/2014 8:08:22 AM
I'm sure people get worried because they know this topic has such a long history without having found a real cure so far.
Once the Schallreuter's article was published last year, there was much hope ( and hopefully there's still hope). Headlines were kinda like "grey hair will soon be a thing from the past". When you read that, you don't expect to wait another 10-15 years.

My new experiment will be the melitane. I received the bottle today and I'm still waiting for the carrier to arrive ( DMI). I'm very hopeful though I tell myself not to expect anything. If the iranian study is real, it looks good.

Apart from this: the hair dye industry is big business. A big part of people dying their hair do it due to greying.
When I tell people about having issues with grey hair, most of them are like: what the hell, hair's dye available almost everywhere. It's so easy. Many people already see this as "the solution", so they don't see a real cure as their priority.
 
By stefanovic - 1/23/2014 12:36:14 PM
Thank u so much. I still have the hydrogen peroxide 5 percent at home, is that okay for doing the test?
By Hairy2012 - 7/1/2013 3:24:14 PM
I don't have any issue with the maintenance; my issue is that the product arrived in very unprofessional packaging and, therefore, I was skeptical as to whether it would work.  If it works for you, great.
By Pseudocatalase - 12/4/2013 3:56:24 AM
@Romi, bear in mind that repigmenting white hair follicles is, under any circumstances we know of, a very, very, slow process. A white hair follicle is devoid of melanocytes and devoid of melanocyte stem cells. The process that returns the stem cells to the hair follicle is the migration of a progenitor stem cell from a nearby nerve sheath (which then differentiates into a melanocyte stem cell). People using Latisse topically on skin have had success in repigmenting hair follicles in vitiligo, which is also a process for which 3 months would be considered a short time frame. 

The peptides are MC1 agonists like melanotan (I and II) and acth fragment 1-17. You can google and buy melanotan. The peptides can be synthesized by sequence for not so much money, and work systemically to induce a full body tan. This is all off-label use and there is some indication of some side effects. If a variant were developed that worked topically, I would be quite enthusiastic. However, if you use something like melanotan, you are taking the risks into your own hands - these are not approved for sale for use in humans. 
By Ladd - 5/30/2014 6:21:31 AM
Pharmaceutical drugs backed by billions of dollars have varying results across a wide array of people.


@stefanovic

It has nothing to do with "pathways". 

Maybe, if anything, the researchers would argue against it being used in shampoo because it isn't what the research involved. However, "Santa Claus" uses the shampoo and it has worked for him, so it doesn't matter.

***

PC alone DOES NOT EQUAL repigmentation in vitiligo patients.

PC + UVB DOES EQUAL repigmentation in vitiligo patients.

PC alone PREVENTS vitiligo where applied.

If I could ask "Santa Claus" a few questions they would be:
1) How many hours per week does(did) he spend outdoors?
2) In general how exposed is his scalp? Can you see it from different angles?
3) Are some areas of the head responding better than others?
4) What foods and supplements (if any) does he consume?
5) As he ever tried escaping from Pseudocatalse's captivity?
By EN8686 - 8/27/2014 5:09:58 PM
@Pseudocatalase: Have you given any thought to stem cell/WNT protein research in regards to this?
By Beefster - 8/2/2013 10:26:39 AM
DDye is right about DMSO and this product. DMSO use could cause the absorption of too much manganese and possibly other substances.

1. The product already has Methyl Gluceth-20, which is used for its moisture retentive qualities and ability to open pores and follicles.

2. It also has EDTA which enhances the derma penetration of other ingredients.


By DDye - 10/14/2012 11:18:17 AM
Thank you for your thoughts, zzgorme.  By the way, if the hair follicle completely dies as hypothesized in your second point, there wouldn't be any hair, regardless of color.
By dave - 5/28/2014 10:17:03 AM
I have  used several bottles of the PC shampoo over the last 8 months or so and just finally decided yesterday, no change.
By stefanovic - 5/28/2014 1:36:53 PM
Officially those getawaygray-products mostly have a 90 percent success rate but almost all users happened to be part of that 10 percent group.

Most people over here having tested the PC-product have been doing it for 4-12 months ( just a random guess) so I think the time's right to understand why this method doesn't work for most of us here. The theory is very strong, but there must be something about the delivery method that doesn't make this product work for people. Okay, I'm repeating myself but it's important. We paid for it, we were hoping for the best,

I was recommended to combine PC and melitane but if it works, you won't know if it's the PC or melitane. So you can keep ordering PC forever being scared that leaving it out would stop the effects.
By Pseudocatalase - 9/17/2013 4:14:35 AM
There may be some confusion between my listing and the Einstein photo listing. To summarize, he has been listing a pseudocatalase product longer than I have. I have tested his product, and found it does disproportionate hydrogen peroxide, but its efficacy is about one third to one fifth of my variant. I intensively read the scientific works and patents of Karin Schallreuter and tested all her variants of pseudocatalase. We use the most active variant she has published. We also found that pseudocatalase reacts with many components of skin creams and shampoos, and thus becomes inactive. Our products do not, and we are confident that you will see the reaction with hydrogen peroxide when tested outside the product. Anyone using any pseudocatalase product should do this test. Place one drop of the pseudocatalase product on a clean flat surface, and put one drop of hydrogen peroxide over half of the product. The bubbling should be obvious within 2 minutes with the shampoo, and 10 minutes with the cream. 

I use my own products on my own vitiligo, and my colleagues are seeing some repigmentation of gray and white hair. It is still too early to see if 100% pigmentation will be restored in either case, because progress is slow. The first signs of pigmentation are no sooner than 6-8 weeks, and we anticipate 6-8 months will be required to complete the process. I wish everyone with gray hair and vitiligo the best in their search for treatment.  If anyone has any further questions about melanocytes, pseudocatalase, or vitiligo, feel free to ask, because we've been deeply researching these topics for some time now. 
By Pseudocatalase - 12/7/2013 4:56:49 AM
@Stargazer, I find this announcement, will follow with great interest. Topical formulations have a tremendous increase in specificity, which makes it a lot easier to minimize side effects. 

http://www.clinuvel.com/en/investors/news-publications/announcements/2011/clinuvel-granted-us-topical-formulation-patent
By troppo - 3/29/2014 5:18:58 PM
@BoB.org

does the mt2 darken the gray or white hairs on your beard or just the pigmented ones?

By Ladd - 2/28/2014 8:06:53 AM
@Pseudocatalase It extends on the free-radical theory of aging where processes in the body are "reset" if the radicals are removed.  Again, thanks for you insight.

I guess what happens with melitane (specifically with white hair and if it does repigment them according to the study provided by DanRo) is it "strong arms" whatever little amount of melanocytes that do exist. I guess that is why the small amount of people who've tried it on this forum saw spotty results with reversal.

SmileAnother thing to consider with melitane is the oddly tanned scalp, hair line, and whatever other areas it absorbs into....

By fastingly, Kelton - 9/1/2013 7:41:12 AM
Semi-off-topic: for those of you who use ketoconazole shampoo to fend-off certain balding caused by excess DHT and other uses,  Nizoral non-prescription shampoo has arrived once again on store shelves here in the U.S. after these many years of absence. 
By Dodge1980 - 9/12/2014 7:36:07 AM
How long does it usually take for people to turn gray? I'm 34 and whilst I've often see the odd hair here and there which was grey, over the 8 weeks the sides of my head have turned completely grey(almost white) and about 50% of the hair on the top of my head seems to have gone grey. Is this normal? I've been experiencing massive emotional stress during this period (possible depression). It started off with some thing else but now all I can think about is my grey hair and I wonder if this is causing more grey to happen? It's all very odd 
By Fumpa - 3/2/2011 4:57:58 AM
Can you guys add all the old posts to this forum? I'm not sure if others would like this but I think it may improve on the value of this topic in this new site. Also I think this new forum is fine, but I do think a different background would be better though and maybe a few other design changes. But thanks for hosting this. I keep coming back.
By Whiskey - 3/6/2013 4:36:00 AM
I had premature grey hair due to vitamin B12 deficiency (in my case due to autoimmune pernicious anaemia).  I reversed my grey hair when i reversed my vitamin B12 deficiency. BigGrin

"In a two-year analysis performed through the Department of Dermatology at University Hospital in Uppsala, Sweden, researchers discovered that folic acid, vitamin B12 and sun exposure could help encourage re-pigmentation of one's skin and hair. One hundred patients with vitiligo - an ailment where the skin loses its pigmentation - ended up being treated with folic acid and B12, and told to increase their exposure to the sun. After three to six months, researchers noted that re-pigmentation was evident in 64% of patients, with six patients experiencing total re-pigmentation. [Juhlin, L and MJ Olson. "Improvement of vitiligo after oral treatment with vitamin B12 and folic acid and the importance of sun exposure", Department of Dermatology, University Hospital, Uppsala, Sweden]."

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6202244
By wisdom1st - 9/3/2013 6:49:21 PM
Jcoireangus - Onion juice is loaded with catalase, as are other substances. The problem is that it doesn't penetrate the skin (scalp). That's a good thought to try with Depo. However, Viagard claims that natural catlase is already in the product, or has led us to believe that anyway.  It's the pseudocatalase that is supposed to penetrate skin, and act as an artificial catalase.  In theory, we should be getting a double dose (natural catalase and artificial catalase) to combat the H2O2 when using the product. 

Two things to point out though. Just because Viagard says pseudocatalase is in their product, doesn't make it a fact. Secondly, PC-KUS, a modified catalase, is the known effective product. Even though it is patented, key ingredients may have been purposely omitted. Hopefully, somebody is trying to take the ball and make an effective product to market. Whether Viagard's product contains psuedocatalase or not, they've put a product out there that shows one of the ingredients as psuedocatalase, and nobody has stopped them. So, if and when the correct effective formula is developed by an individual or company that desires to bring it to market, they should be able to do just that because Viagard has done so, and has not been restricted. A door has been opened, and it is a step in the right direction.  
By troppo - 1/6/2014 4:36:05 AM
Wanna give progress update.

I have been working on this religiously for 6 months with the following protocol:

-pseudocatalase at least 2x day
-uvb lamp 3x week for 4 min
-dermarolling occasionally
-paba 3g/day
-wheatgrass/leafy green juicing daily
-increased copper intake via liver (pate) and copper supplementation
-vitamin b supplementation
-folic acid supplementation
-brewer's yeast
-blackstrap molasses
-ginger intake
-fo ti

Basically I feel like I have tried EVERYTHING and unfortunately, it looks like I might have some repigmentation in a few (I only have a few) gray chest hairs; however, my beard (primary concern) has actually gotten a little worse.  So, none of this has even halted the progression of gray in my beard/sideburns.

Very frustrated but I'm not giving up yet.
By calc - 1/18/2012 6:12:49 PM
Even at 8mg/day copper my copper level is still not even at midrange normal, its still at only 100 ug/dL (range 70-155). I have read claims online that excess zinc can displace copper in the body, and if that happens to actually be true it may be a while before I get my body copper level back up to normal. I started taking excessive levels of zinc last year before I got a blood test for it, which lead to my hair greying quite a bit more in a short time. So far no change in hair color with the extra copper but I still have hopes that it might eventually, lol.
By brm - 9/21/2013 1:48:53 PM
[quote]Pseudocatalase (9/16/2013)
Sorry, I am new to the site and don't mean to be an intrusion.  I was curious if anyone had any familiarity with using pseudocatalase to treat gray hair.  I am a vitiligo patient that has started to compound the product for personal use on the skin.  However, a colleague of mine began using it for his gray hair and it appears to be working for that as well.  I have started offering it for others on ebay, because from my earlier experiences compounding pharmacies were charging me an arm and a leg.  However, I don't want to waste my time or others in compounding it if it is not a viable long term treatment.  Any insight from anyone that is familiar with the product for hair use would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks, I will provide the link below if anyone is interested in taking a look...



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pseudocatalase-PC-KUS-Shampoo-Lotion-Gray-Hair-Vitiligo-Treatment-/121171845925?pt=US_Skin_Care&var=&hash=item1c3667a325[/quote]
 
 
Your link is blocked by eBay in my country. I can only see it in cache and wouldn't venture in that deal. How come? I'm not very familiar with these licence things or marketing areas or some other thing. 
By skmackie - 7/4/2012 7:22:12 PM
Here's an article about how hair becomes gray and/or white.   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/4970326/Natural-peroxide-responsible-for-turning-hair-grey-or-white.html

I have lyme disease and have been on some heavy meds for some time.  Recently my gray hair turned snow white almost overnight.  It was at the very end of an anti-parasite protocol which I was on for 6 1/2 weeks.  When I went to get my hair cut a couple of days ago, my hairdresser told me that my normal hair was coming in at the roots.  Needless to day, I was relieved.
By DanRo - 1/17/2014 8:33:08 AM
That article with Dr Schallreuter confirms my experience with certain spicy foods as I mentioned earlier in the thread. Garlic salt appears to be one of them since after using a lot of it on my food for a period of time is when noticeable gray beard hairs suddenly began showing up. I also suspect high fructose corn syrup as another culprit. Even though graying is mostly genetic I think these foods may encourage it prematurely or accelerate its advance.
By DanRo - 1/28/2014 1:36:04 PM
sartios (1/25/2014)
Hi again, i work in a cosmetic industry and we use MELITANE for antisolaire products, we have it in 1 lt botlle, i think i can send you some of it if you want.. and the recipe of lotion that i made it..


@sartios, that sounds interesting, I might be willing to do that. Could you post on the board the address with the price or if you prefer send me a private email so I can purchase it? I'd also definitely like to know the vehicle you used to mix it up with.
By stefanovic - 5/31/2014 12:11:36 AM
I wouldn't say 4-5 people not knowing each other and not responding are a really small and insignificant sample.

I like your contribution, Romi. It's true: even the melitane invention has gone through a third party trial but I don't even can't find it with Schallreuter.

I wonder what Schallreuter would think of people experimenting with PC and not reporting results. As a private person she doesn't answer my emails, but would a more significant person be able to get in touch with her and check out what is really going on?
By Nick2013 - 7/11/2013 5:00:56 AM
Hi,

I'm new here. I just received my depo-melanin from viaguard. ( bought it via Ebay ). Started the treatment today. Will report here.

I got a good haircut last week hoping it would help the stuff to actually reach the skin.

I'm also putting some on my chin hoping in a few days my beard will grow darker. Should be much faster that with hair I guess?

Picture #1: http://i43.tinypic.com/znaa7q.jpg

Picture #2: http://i41.tinypic.com/fup9bc.jpg

I will post more pics along the way Smile

Nick
By Pseudocatalase - 11/29/2013 6:09:32 AM
Hi @TruthandBeauty,

the best scientific knowledge on pigmentation of hair says that hair follicles that lack pigment can be repigmented. This process is very very slow (more than a year in treated vitiligo patients) and is sensitive to activation of the melanocortan 1 (MC1) receptor. This receptor is typically activated by UV light on the skin.  There are peptides that bind this receptor - and injection of them under the skin will lead to an entire body tan (and presumably a speeding up of hair follicle pigmentation). The safe, accepted, way to speed up repigmentation is UV light exposure. Use of the peptides is mostly unexplored with respect to safety, and they only work via injection at a systemic level - not topically where needed.

Hair follicles lose pigment in multiple ways. The general level of inflammation goes up with age, and this causes an increased immune "tone" which leads to higher H2O2 levels. The cells that produce pigment are very sensitive to H2O2 levels, and can die from this exposure. Elevated cortisol levels (which also occur with normal aging) will cause the melanocyte stem cells to differentiate into melanocytes. The stem cell population can become depleted, which eventually leads to loss of pigment cells. The pseudocatalase products work only on the H2O2 levels. So those ways of losing melanocytes are balanced against the replenishment by UV light.

If you are really gung-ho about this process, you probably want to figure out how to use a UV light wand in conjuction with a pseudocatalase product. The science says this approach will have the greatest chance of success.  But even with a UV wand, a LOT of patience is required. The pigments return on the order of months and years, not days and weeks. 

MOST people using our pseudocatalase product see noticeable return of pigment within 3-4 months, and very slow progressive return of pigment thereafter. It varies from person to person. I wouldn't say it looks like it is going to turn white hair entirely brown, but going from all white to salt-and-pepper gray is entirely possible, or from salt-and-pepper gray to slightly darker salt-and-pepper. But best responses require a LOT of patience.  
By Pseudocatalase - 11/13/2013 7:53:39 AM
Hi @Romi,

if you ordered from the vendor pseudocatalase AT gmail.com on eBay, that is us. Please email us and we will double check that you are performing the H2O2 test correctly. If it does not bubble, we will have you send it back, where we will test it, and followup to ensure that you get an active pseudocatalase lotion. If you ordered from pseudocatalase.com, that is not us. I am truly sorry for the ambiguity in the name. However, I would still encourage you to contact your vendor. If you order a pseudocatalase product, it ought to bubble when tested properly! 

@Truth and Beuty, I think you may find skin penetration to be an issue with onion catalase. Pseudocatalase is not protein based, and has been documented to disproportionate the H2O2 in the skin. Onion juice, to my knowledge, has not.  
By EN8686 - 8/13/2014 10:06:46 AM
You're right. Its just that in ten years, I really won't care about this. Its the fact that its happening in my prime that bothers me so much. Grey hair starting I sprout in your mid-late 30's-- fair enough. But the fact that its happening so early is what sucks and makes you feel robbed. And the fact that it will be that much worse in 10 years. 

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir. 
By brm - 11/28/2011 11:14:16 AM
Jen (11/12/2011)
Dunno if the herb Fo-Ti has been discussed here.  Has many benefits along with reversal of gray according to reports. Just started taking it myself, although at 60+ I still only have a bit of gray.  I feel my longtime practice of the Yoga headstand has something to do with that.
Anyway, Fo-Ti: http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/adaptogenic-herb-foti-for-longevity-and-energy

excerpt (note the last benefit listed--pretty impressive!):

Studies of Fo-Ti’s Benefits

As is typical with herbs and natural remedies, funding for research on fo-ti has been limited. Nonetheless, some very compelling studies do support this herb’s legendary reputation. Here are a few:
  • In one study, a traditional formula with fo-ti as the main ingredient was shown to slow the aging of vital organs in aged animals, especially the reproductive organs. The same formula also demonstrated significant results in human clinical trials.
  • In another study, Fo-ti capsules were given to 60 humans above age 50 who had been assessed in a Chinese clinic as experiencing “kidney deficiency.” Out of the 60 cases, 30% were considered “extremely effective” and 53.3% were ruled “effective.” That’s a whopping 83.3% combined efficacy!
  • Another study gave Fo-ti liquor extract to 36 people with gray hair. After treatment, 24 completely recovered their dark hair and 8 more showed improvement. That’s a total efficacy rate of 88.9%!


Ho shou wouh is a scam. I took this thing for three or four years without the least result. And BTW, I had it from the chinese store round the corner, that is, the real stuff ground by the shopowners before my eyes. BS.
By DanRo - 1/9/2014 6:39:43 AM
@Ace_Road, I've been trying for the last few weeks to get a hold of melitane but so far have been unable to find a reliable seller. It's currently being prescribed in India. Too bad there's an apparent lack of interest because as you said there are actually studies that confirm some usefulness. If anyone has had any luck (or not) with it please post and let us know. 
By DanRo - 8/3/2012 3:49:11 AM
JenJ (8/2/2012)
I wonder if stem cell therapy/treatment really works?  I know someone who has flown to Thailand for cosmetic enhancements, but since she doesn't have greying hair, this wasn't something considered.

http://www.thailandmedtourism.com/TreatmentDetail/45/2908/Stem-Cell-Treatment-for-Beauty-Rejuvenation


There is real science behind Thymosin Beta 4 (tb4). RegeneRx has patents for its use with certain treatments and is in the process of FDA trials. They are developing a legitimate topical for eye rejuvenation:

http://www.regenerx.com/wt/home/index
By stefanovic - 9/10/2014 9:02:08 AM
I have heard the hair max is not strong. Overmachogrande seems to be the device with the best strength. He was working on a device for the sides as theradome is designed just for the top of the head.

Most claims say using it three times a week.

The website is genuine but the guy running it is an honest person. He also admitted to having had two hair transplants so the device is just an extra help. The grey reversal is described as something more prominent than the hair loss reversal.
The longer you use it, the better strength,....the better results

Another question: is it possible to have vitiligo on hair only. I notice on top of my hair there are maybe less than ten percent of greys but around my ears there are spots being completely white and it all happened in a short period of time.

Anyway I'll be getting my melitane soon. It's relatively cheap compared to LLLT.
By xtian - 9/6/2013 7:21:42 AM
Will be three months of consistent use for me the 14th of september. Never skipped an application. Not a change whatsoever
By DDye - 1/18/2011 4:23:13 AM
Welcome, JC.

Fo-ti was discussed in the older Forums.  We are glad you are having success with it because no one else reported the same on this Forum.  Thanks for your contribution. 

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 5/13/2014 6:37:42 PM
Please accept Life Extension's apology. It is up now.
By stefanovic - 3/11/2014 4:45:44 AM
I'm also very interested in Santa's regimen. I really hope it works. Cut my hair short yesterday ( was dyed) and it was shocking. Being 31, having the youthful face of a 20 something and white hair

I'm also looking forward to see if there are some updates on the melitane.
By ajanthony - 2/12/2014 6:00:05 PM
Reading some of the ingredients in some of the pseudo catalase, noticed one of the main ingredients being baking soda.  As my last reply indicated, baking soda is one of the most powerful ways to bring neutrality to the  hydrogen peroxide, internally and externally.  Maybe being overlooked.  Great forum and lots of ideas.
By Tom. - 11/26/2010 2:23:08 PM
kench (11/22/2010)
Tom - I'm very interested in the evolutionary basis for graying, and why it seems to have been preserved.  If it has been preserved as a survival benefit for the species, then it may be a difficult thing to reverse, as we've been trying to do on this forum topic for so many years.

Instead, if it is merely a by-product of normal aging, we should be able to make some headway against it; at least understand it a little better than we do currently.


Very good question. Gray hair occurs in both animals and humans but hair loss with age is not common in animals.  Gray hair is an aging factor we share with other species.

If you think about evolution it seems a bit backwards.  For example, when we are young we typically have long eye lashes and thick heads of colored hair. Which doesn't make sense evolutionary speaking.  The young are usually protected and sheltered so they have far less need for hair to protect their head from harsh weather, eyelashes to keep dust out of their eyes.

The older ones go out and hunt for food, battle harsh weather, dust storms but have thin or bald heads (less protection for their heads) and thin eye lashes which you'd think would stay thick and full to protect the eyes. Gray hair is bright and stands out which can give away a cover when hunting.

The argument for the other side could be that when we are young, our skulls are softer and our brains not fully developed until late into our 2nd decade of life. So we may need more hair for padding of the skull and brain when we are young.  The hair could stay colored when we are young because if lost in the wild we'd be too weak to defend ourselves and we have a better chance for survival by camouflage and warmth from cold weather.

Well, no doubt it's an interesting question.  I don't think gray hair is meant to be. I think it's just part of the aging of the body.  When you're young, cells are young and healthy and growing and so that's why we have thick, colored hair and all the rest of our youthful traits.

I think some people age faster than others. This can be caused by genetics and lifestyle.  You'll see some people who never go gray and some very little.  People who don't take very good care of themselves tend to age and go gray even faster.

I think in time science will find a cure for gray hair, balding and other age related things.
By gotsomegray - 3/31/2011 7:28:30 PM
I found more info on the www.reversethegrey.com product.  I found a podcast with an interview of the inventor of the product.  I have some experience with products like this, which reminds me of homeopathy, and I believe some of them work although I'm not sure about this one.  It's nice to at least hear from the person who is selling a product like this.  Here's the link to the podcast - http://yaktivate.s3.amazonaws.com/radioforyourhealth/audio/ReverseTheGrey-complete.mp3
By DanRo - 7/30/2012 6:54:42 AM
Gaizz,

That's out of Switzerland and something new. What I posted about was Actistem but as it turns out the tb4 molecule was too big to penetrate the skin. I bought that product and wasted my money so I'm a little leery about trying it again. Lots of good reviews on tb-500 though, which is the synthetic tb4 but it needs to be injected.
By stefanovic - 13 hours ago
I found this quote on another forum.

For white hair you could try tocotrienols, resveratrolc and/or 60-oo.
By stefanovic - 5/27/2014 8:25:34 AM
Okay, I just hope from now on this forum is a bit more active compared to the last few weeks.

Back on topic: googling LLLT almost all users using a serious device notice darkening of greys. Probably something to look into a bit further.
By Hairy2012 - 2/24/2013 5:56:41 PM
There still has not be a SOLUTION posted.  This thread should be titled:

THOUGHTS ABOUT REVERSING GRAY HAIR
By Romi - 10/1/2014 12:31:48 PM
@stefanovic

In my experience, vitiligo is distinguished by skin color before hair color. Usually you would find a whole spot of white skin that is lacking pigmentation underneath the white hair.  Also white hairs come in patches , not just scattered gray 




By EN8686 - 5/16/2014 5:48:48 PM
Interesting idea regarding the vodka and cayenne. I googled it but only found testimonials regarding hair regrowth, not much about greying.  
By prestige93 - 3/26/2014 11:12:23 AM
Hello everybody .
I've been away for some time due to the birth of my first childSmile
For about two months I bought the powdr taht pseudocatalase (the user) sells on ebay, but only today i did the mixture with neribas cream. Somebody said here, that neribas cream was indicated carrier for pc-kus ... but it's completely impossible to use on the hair ... what a let down ... it is impracticable to do this twice a day. The neribas cream is so greasy that we can not even sweep the hair, glue it all .... With this I can only conclude that the only way to use pc- kus is in the form of shampoo ... but unfortunately the user pseudocatalase not sell shampoos for europe ... Risking to mix another pc-kus with experimental shampoo seems absurd.
Meanwhile , I bought Melitane  from sartios, yesterday and I will mix with Jonsons baby shampoo , since it has a ph of 5.5 .
It will be really good if LEF made a shampoo which encompassed pseudocatalase and Melitane ...
It is  so sad to be 31 years, and be the alchemist at home, in the hope  of getting rid of grey hair ...
I think younger people are more depressed with this. If I had 40 years and start greying, i dont care that much ... but with 30 and have 1/3 of white hair is depressing ...it hurts..
By Transpower - 2/24/2013 3:30:30 PM
I found Moliva Grey Away on Amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/Moliva-Grey-Professional-Tonic-Women/dp/B008HF7K2G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361755640&sr=8-1&keywords=moliva+grey+away

But this seems to be a different "Grey Away" than the product mentioned above.  Has anyone here tried Moliva Grey Away?  My hair is still dark brown--except for my mustache, which is now "salt and pepper."  I'd like to change it back to the way it once was, but it's really no big deal.


By Slider - 9/12/2013 11:57:22 PM
Tonifromafar you maybe correct

http://fightingvitiligo.com/The%20Cream

Quote

"There is one drawback with this cream and that is, its not very stable and apparently starts to decompose after a while.  For myself, I make a fresh 10 gram cream every few days to make sure that the cream is at its peak performance."
By stefanovic - 4/10/2014 12:06:01 PM
If melitane is a MSH-stimulator just like melanotan, it might work better on darkening light non-greying hair because melanotan darkened my non grey hair but didnt do anything for my greys.

I just wonder if the 5 minutes shampoo treatment is sufficient. Stuff like minoxidil should be on the hair for at least 4 hours. I'm actually 11 weeks in tomorrow.

Let's not panic but work on a solution. The melitane and PC studies are very good and reputable. It's just a matter of penetration and application and we need to make some adjustments I suppose.

PS: the study that compared melitane and maidenhair seemed to be one of the only studies where they have actually really tested a big group of people over several months and it was published in a very reputable scientific magazine.
The only thing I don't understand is that they mention using both a shampoo and lotion.
By Ladd - 5/30/2014 1:59:13 PM
@EN8686

I think this is a much fairer assessment.

I would offer one thing: Including myself, you, stefanovic, and apparently "Dave" there are four people who've reported results. It's a really small and insignificant sample.

If you don't mind. What region of the U.S. do you live in? (I'm from the south). Have you developed any sort of tan yet? Are you fair skin? Do you take any supplements and/or antioxidants? Do you drink green tea?

@stefanovic

Pseudocatalase said "Santa Claus" was using it in the morning only. As an alternative you could also look into conditioners and lotions.

To LEF:

Thank you for the much faster approval times. Smile
By BigBraLover - 12/6/2010 7:40:17 AM
might this be the same gel... if so mix with dmso and apply to scalp... hmm...

"Boh

Jul 3rd, 2010 at 12:18 am There is already a gel product similar to this already on the market. It's called Icon by a German dental supply company DMG. Of course, it's up to the dentist to actually buy it to offer to patients."




Reference:   http://www.neatorama.com/2010/06/30/new-gel-could-regenerate-human-teeth/


Icon® treatment video vestibular

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4x8k4ySAM
By DDye - 2/24/2014 4:38:13 PM
Interestingly, Gleevec or Glivec, which is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor, has been associated with gray hair reversal.
By jamieh - 5/22/2014 5:16:50 AM
This shampoo appears to have melitane in it:

By DanRo - 2/27/2014 12:24:31 PM
@sartios, do you have a direct link to your product because I can't locate it on eBay?

Yesterday someone was selling what looked like Melitane GL200 from Greece, which is the concentrated liquid peptide. The seller recommended a 1 to 20 ratio of the peptide into a lotion or cream. I won't post the link but there is a company in Greece selling Melitane GL200, just Google that with organikkimya. They appear to sell it to companies in large quantities only.  
By stefanovic - 10/8/2014 12:08:53 AM
Just a few weeks into the melitane now.
I had mixed the PC melitane without DMI and after a few days I always noticed a drop in PH, from 6 to 5
I had mixed the other melitane I got from a Chinese supplier with DMI and then some with no DMI
The one with DMI doesn't drop in PH levels. The one without DMI does.

I took some pics. The dark green is a PH around 6, the light green 5, three days before it was all the same color.

http://i.imgur.com/HBCFusP.jpg
By StarGazer2 - 5/3/2013 7:56:18 AM
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-05/foas-gha050313.php

Well, isn't this interesting?  At first I thought it was going to be another bogus "grey hair cure" press release from Go Away Grey.


But if this is really from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, then this could be legit. 

Note that after all the bogus stuff from L'oreal's researcher, I am not claiming this is the real deal.  The press release never mentions who is going to develop this treatment nor provides any details on it other than the research.


But it's gotten my attention AND there's no sign it's tied in with L'Oreal (thank God).
By EN8686 - 4/20/2014 4:10:51 PM
Thanks very much, Beefster!
By Hairy2012 - 9/15/2012 4:25:08 PM
I have been following this topic because it comes up everytime I do a google search on reversing gray hair.  I can't seem to find anything to work.

 

Mustard Oil - great hair moisturizer but hair grew in gray using it

Vitamin E - see mustard oil

Blackstrap molasses - very sweet and unhealthy to take daily and did not reverse gray hair

D3 - I take everyday and still have gray hair coming in

MSM - I take everyday and gray hair comes in

Raw Food Supplement for Women - I take everyday and gray hair still comes in

I can't find any supplementation to stop the gray from coming in.

 

I have black hair so right now I am using a shampoo that colors black hair called DEITY.  You basically shampoo your hair for 10 minutes and it turns it black.  It lasts as long as you don't sweat or get your hair wet.  Basically, you have to keep shampooing the product in your hair to keep in black.

I also use Nutrisse Rinses and various permanent colors.  The problem is that no product really keeps the gray away for longer than 3 weeks.

I am sad. LOL!

I am a supplement junkie and healthy as a horse but nothing I take has reversed my eye aging issues or hair aging issues.
By Englishbull - 8/4/2013 10:41:39 AM
@ Lot Light, we would be here forever if we were to list all the products than don't work.

I think it is safe to say that the new kid on the block, 'Depo Melanin,' is the way forward and by far the best product to come out, which holds the most hope for us all!

I am waiting to receive mine and then will be taking part in the experiment with the others.
By fastingly, Kelton - 9/16/2013 10:57:16 AM
I'm 40 and have about a dozen grey hairs on each side of my head, no big deal, not even worth thinking about. . .
Yet I'm intensely interested in the significance of grey hair as an outward signal of the bigger picture of it being one manifestation of the cellular aging going on inside.  Of that unseen factor it represents, I'm actually quite obsessed about grey hair.  I have zero interest in dyeing away the grey hair, no matter how grey it gets, but it reminds me daily of my quest to be a part of the push for greater life extension technologies.  
By Slider - 10/18/2011 7:53:36 AM
Grey Defence been available since early August.

If it works there will be testimonials.

as for Loreal working on a product for 10 years but not sure if it will work for people who are allready grey!

Give me a break.
By Pseudocatalase - 4/16/2014 4:52:55 AM
Hi @Ladd, scientific research is COOL. Don't worry about quoting the article here, you DID cite it and note that the work came from the article, and it IS in an open journal that anyone can read for free. There is no copyright concern, whatsoever, in what you did. 

As to the article. The main source of catalase in the hair follicle is melanocytes and their stem cells. If the hair follicle is white, then the melanocytes are dead, so of course there will be little catalase present. In that regard, the work is a foregone conclusion. The real key is WHY DID THE MELANOCYTES DIE? Inflammation/stress markers will make melanocytes less healthy (or something related to inflammation/stress), and these increase in all aging people. They boost the immune response. Part of that immune response is the release of hydrogen peroxide by the keratinocytes. The hydrogen peroxide, in addition to killing invading cells AND melanocytes and their stem cells, will signal other immune cells from the bloodstream to enter the skin and become active. The immune response is bad for the melanocytes, the local stress hormones are bad for the melanocytes, and the hydrogen peroxide is bad for the melanocytes. Pseudocatalase is effective against the hydrogen peroxide only. If that is a key player in melanocyte health in your case, it will stop hair greying, and allow the normal replenishment of melanocytes. But if your immune response is killing melanocytes in a hydrogen peroxide independent manner, pseudocatalase will not help. We know it helps some people, A LOT, on a slow time course. With this in mind, we hope people try it and see if it also works for them. 

The normal replenishment of melanocytes is very slow. How grey your hair is results from a balance between the replenishment, and the killing of melanocytes. Pseudocatalase only impacts the killing of the melanocytes. The replenishment is driven by UVB exposure, probably by alpha-MSH pathways. People with vitiligo, for example, use both UVB exposure and pseudocatalase to optimize results, and most can fully repigment with such a regimen in less than 2 years. The application to gray hair is still a little early to know how effective it will prove. 
By DDye - 12/12/2010 1:26:50 PM
Although it is possible to be deficient in copper since it is an essential mineral, many people have too much copper according to some health authorities.  A blood test or hair analysis (on undyed hair) would be a good idea before supplementing with copper. 

Carl Pfeiffer wrote a lot about the zinc/copper balance in his books, and discussed some of the adverse effects of high copper levels such as anxiety.  On the other hand, not having enough copper can be lethal. 
By stefanovic - 5/30/2014 9:36:03 AM
Most companies not guaranteeing a 100 pct success rate, promise to refund money when you're not pleased. This has never been the case here. That's why I'm rather sceptical.

But on topic:
I have long hair and I'm not going to cut it short. I don't know if that would make a difference.

It doesn't work for all people reporting their results on this forum. There must be a reason why. I think no one has used a UVB wand. Is UV exposure not sufficient?
By stefanovic - 2/17/2014 10:38:42 AM
Thanks Sartios! I like your dedication and read your posts. How did it evolve in the mean time?
By zzgorme - 10/12/2012 12:25:59 AM
peterb (10/9/2012)
Hi ZZ,

A practical question: do you take pills/tablets or do you purchase the actual root and make your soup or broth with it? I read somewhere that the latter is not unusual... It might make a difference...


I just buy the capsules and take about 1200 milligrams a day. You can take more but I find it affects my concentration if I take too much, it acts to enhance dopamine which improves concentration if not overdone. That might just be me though, I take tyrosine etc and might have higher dopamine levels already.  I think life extension has them or plenty of others do. I have some Chinese friends and they told me they have made a tea from the actual root, but not to make their hair dark.

Really the way it conditions the hair is nearly as good as making it darker. Another interesting thing is the white hairs seem to slowly get greyer as they revive, then I suppose they suddenly completely revive and the individual hairs go black. The pattern of going dark is unusual as well, from the back of my neck upwards it went dark much more quickly, then there are patches of dark in unusual places. it looks like I had it streaked.
By EN8686 - 4/1/2014 11:14:53 AM
Maybe Pseudocatalase could shed some light on what to mix it with?
By StarGazer2 - 6/3/2011 7:30:01 AM
They don't answer any emails at ExtLifeSciences.   That 'company' is a joke.  They will never produce anything of substance.  You can put L'oreal in that same category. 

Lemonade stands.
By Gaizz - 4/22/2011 2:28:25 AM
DanRo (4/21/2011)
This is an old story so I don't know if it was posted on the other forum thread but apparently a Japanese company has been claiming hops extract works to stimulate melanocytes and reverse graying:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nb20040724a8.html


http://www.renuagedefy.com/renual.php

"The result of 10 years of the most advanced hair care research and development, this revolutionary scalp treatment formulated by Shiseido Laboratories slows the graying process to keep gray hair at bay and maintain hair's youthful color and texture."

I have used it for 14 months without any results..... Sad
By DanRo - 5/4/2012 6:17:24 PM
raveena (5/4/2012)
StarGazer2 (2/10/2012)
Nice try, raveena. 

Your profile shows you've only had 2 visits to this forum (1 of which was to post your spam promotion).  Now, if you've been reading all the posts for so long as you claim, why do you only have 2 visits?

Hogwash.
Hello stargazer Please know that I am not selling anything just giving my honest opinion. I have been following this post for years (including old posts) reading with lot of interest that is being said and tried. Since I did not have lot of useful stuff to add I did not post. I apply henna and surya cream regularly and am waiting as anxiously as you are for grey hair cure as my kids who are in their twenties have grey hair and am not great fan of chemical dyes. If you have anymore questions about my authencity please meassage me and I will try to help your sceptacism.

I am a great fan of this forum and thought I will just share  with what method I am using to help my family. I honestly can't wait to for a cure as I totally hate greys specially for for my kids as they are so young.

Cheers

Raveena Pls note I will not be posting in a hurry unless I have something more substantial to add. But will be still reading and following this post.


If we were mice then anything would work. We could even rub comet on our heads, wouldn't that be great?

The latest "cure" for the little creatures: astressin-B apparently does the trick to restore their hair and color.  Human trials might begin in the next five to ten years, if we're lucky. 
By stefanovic - 2/13/2014 9:12:01 AM
Okay I'm sharing the abnormalities found in my bloodwork ( 31 years of age)

Cholesterol  207  mg/dl  ( should be lower than 190)
Triglycerides 335 mg/dl  ( should be lower than 180)
GPT ( ALT) 53 U/L  ( should be lower than 41)
vitamin D3 46,2  ug/l  ( should be between 20 and 43)
Cortisol evening 17,1 ug/dl ( should be between 2 and 12)
testosterone was 3,08 ug/l 

Hope this can help.
By stefanovic - 1/24/2014 8:27:03 AM
StarGazer2 (1/23/2014)
I got a google alert on this tonight.  I would wager my neighbor's cat this product is garbage as the website has the usual scambag look about it, but for those of you who like lightening your wallet on such stuff, you might be interested:

http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/latest-treatment-for-gray-hair-by-pelame-inc-receives-immense-demand-due-to-its-effectiveness-444983.htm

http://www.pro-follicleanse.com/


I don't know. It might be based on Schallreuter's research. People having read stuff on this forum for instance and creating their own product. I see it happening more and more in the future. I just hate the colgate white smile look of it.
By Pseudocatalase - 1/2/2014 6:35:16 AM
@stefanovic, it will come with everything you need to mix it with except water and Neribas. If pseudocatalase restores some pigment in you, it should also protect against further greying. It gets rid of hydrogen peroxide in the skin, and hydrogen peroxide causes pigment producing cells (melanocytes) to die. If your melanocytes are dying from hydrogen peroxide, pseudocatalase will stop them from dying. The re-pigmentation process, however, is very slow, so a lot of patience is required. 
By Ladd - 12/16/2013 4:50:20 PM
@DanRo

The product/formula forum member "Pseudocatalase" is selling has over a decade of research behind it for the treatment of vitiligo. It has been proven to remove H202 buildup in the skin. Has it been proven to be a valid treatment for gray hair? No, but if you combine what we know about pseudocatalase and what we know about the cause of gray hair (via the link I posted), it's a very valid hypothesis with a very high probability of being at least minimally effective. Keep in mind that all of this stuff is fairly new. H202 and the gray hair connection was discovered in 2009. Gray hair with pseudocatalase treatment was suggested in June or July of this year. A lot of variables are unknown or fully understood.

You're probably referring to depo-melanin. I personally have not bought their product and I would not recommend doing so.

Pseudocatalase has always been VERY clear that what he's selling is not some miracle cure.
By EN8686 - 8/12/2014 2:45:00 PM
its a shame that LEF and the science community doesn't consider premature aging a priority. 
By Beefster - 7/29/2013 8:41:20 AM
Experiment update:

I have to admit that if I read the first experiment post on the internet my BS meter would have been flashing lights and setting off sirens! LOL 

After yesterdays results, I decided to checkout the test patch of gray hairs in my normal bathroom lighting (a swag with two 100 watt incandescent bulbs in opaque glass globes) as well as in a source of good natural lighting (a large bay window in the living room) before doing an application. In the bathroom where all other previous observations were made I could only pick out a few grays while wearing glasses. In the natural lighting I was able to find a few more but it was hard. In the past I never worn glasses for observing except for yesterday. 

My take is that the grays are developing some color a varying stages, but the process has started much faster in a younger person that has just barely begun to gray. It is definitely much harder to see the gray hairs. 

Everybody always thinks that gray hair reversal only happens with new growth but that doesn't seem to me as how it happens. My son, a computer engineer, was expecting it to happen that way too. Read my post for more info as to how gray reverses page 21 post #7214  If you read this you will get a better understanding.

Update on my own hair:

My side burns the first hair to gray on my head are starting to get many hairs that have colored in different stages of darkness. If i get a sideways view I see a lot that have just started to get a hint of color. This type of color is almost impossible to see straight on. Much of these results were already started with my previous home made sod/catalase treatment program.
By calc - 1/1/2012 4:06:31 PM
calc (9/30/2011)
I think I will reverse my grey hair on next Monday, about time I finally do it.

Assuming it actually works I'll explain what I did. I have high hopes for it working considering what I have recently noticed in my blood test results.

What I noticed was that my tryptophan level was very high and my tyrosine level was very low. I think I know how to fix both and if it works then I will likely be producing sufficient melanin again.

I'm waiting until Monday due to taking a SpectraCell nutrient test at that time.

Update: I forgot to mention the reason I am so optimistic is, that via doing things I now better understand, I have made myself significantly more grey over the past year. I think I understand what is going on now and think I have started to reverse the process as of Oct 3. If it works it will probably take at least a month to actually be noticeable.


My SpectraCell test showed that I was low in both B6 (active) and copper. I've been working over the past couple months to lower my Zinc level, which was high, but so far taking more copper has interestingly not raised my serum copper level. I'm currently up to 7mg/day copper intake. I may have to drop my Zinc intake even more (32mg currently from previous 52mg), since the serum level is still around 110-115. I have ordered 'Only Trace Minerals' (w/ 20mg Zinc) to ensure I am getting a good quality mineral pill to replace my current one.

The quoting seems a bit off on this post...
By Gaizz - 8/27/2013 4:32:23 AM
10 weeks with Depo-Melanin. Still nothing... I have very short hair.
By stefanovic - 9/16/2014 11:44:24 AM
Today I talked to a doctor and he assured me stress is linked to white hair and that a reduction in stress could help, that light therapy could help, diet could help,.....It's probably a question of synergy.
By stefanovic - 2/11/2014 3:09:58 PM
Great new discoveries. I feel like the last few months have brought so much more to this forum than all the stuff from many months and years ago. We're on the right track.

I just wanted to say that applying the pseudocatalase shampoo twice a day makes my hair kinda dry and I've used the same PH neutral shampoo with herbs before and it didn't happen way back then. Hair masks and conditioners don't really make a difference, been applying it for almost three weeks now ( way too soon to have results of course).
By Snoodely - 1/18/2012 12:15:12 PM
Well, gosh … I know the answer … I thought every informed person did:  Eat green leaves — the darker green, the better.  Ann Wigmore had no grey hairs at age 82.  (She was the wonderful physician who introduced us to wheatgrass juice.)  At age 65, I have almost no grey hairs; and people are always asking me why.  With apologies and all due respect to Life Extension, quit looking for supplements to reverse grey hair, and start eating your greens.  Check out Victoria Boutenko's Green for Life, for more information on how we are meant to eat lots of green leaves.
By Miguel-inho - 5/1/2012 9:27:58 AM
Hi, 

To those who claim things like: "Eat your greens!  If you don't believe me, check out Ann Wigmore and Victoria Boutenko." just see this picture, please:
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/raw-family.jpg

If green smoothies (an sprouts) work for grey hair, ... that means that the father was in a diet based on hot-dogs?  ;-)

Anyway, I will try to get "miraculous" stuff like:

Unsulfured blackstrap molasses 
- Fo-Ti root supplements
- Kombucha tea 

In spite of many internet wives tales,  I think none of them have been scientifically documented as effective for grey hair reversing. Besides,  I don't know any study establishing proper doses and indentifying potential dangers (could anybody help??)

However,  I will try with them since (my) human stupidity is infinite. Smile
By Jcoireangus - 8/6/2013 8:28:21 AM
Re:  depo-melanin

This is probably irrelevant but I'm Caucasian with dark hair. I tan very easily and darkly. Maybe this means I have melanocytes that are easily stimulated to produce pigment when exposed to the sun?  Might this be a factor in my favor?

Now that is a true example of wishful thinking. 
By Englishbull - 11/26/2013 6:50:09 AM
Depo Melanin does not work, nobody buy it!!
By Beefster - 4/22/2014 11:10:03 AM
@ Stefanovic My Laser helmet is one made by OMG It is his helmet with the most coverage, for a Norwood six pattern. If i remember right, it has 150 plus laser lights.

By gotsomegray - 6/3/2013 6:37:18 PM
wisdom1st - Nice work.  Thanks for sharing the info.  Did you also notice the 2nd comment on your second link?  Someone mentions already noticing the darkening of their roots after just a week.

I'm with you on the ambiguity of what an "area" is.  Vague directions are always annoying.
By DanRo - 1/9/2014 12:21:31 PM
@Pseudocatalase, there are several products that supposedly contain melitane and maybe one of them like Tan and Protect might be worth a try. I'd much rather however purchase the peptide directly and make my own lotion. This way the strength can be increased or decreased as needed.
By StarGazer2 - 8/13/2013 12:51:40 PM
While I haven't found anything that turns my grey hair back to its natural color, I did experience a definite darkening of my facial hair with melanotan when I experimented with that.  It was pretty dramatic. 

I wasn't that grey back then, so it may have been just making my naturally colored beard hair darker, rather than making any grey hairs darker. 
By StarGazer2 - 2/3/2012 9:38:11 AM
I must say, you do get treated with more respect in public when you have grey hair. 

But I'll take disprespect and more looks from the ladies with my old dark brown hair back. 
By Hairy2012 - 6/30/2013 6:41:39 AM
I have it at the house, but the label looks homemade and, thus, it is hard to be motivated to use the product when it looks so cheaply manufactured.  The label states it could take up to 12 weeks to see results and then you use once a week to maintain the results.  The consistency is like that of water with a little UPH to it.
By wisdom1st - 2/27/2014 7:49:18 AM
Stefanovic - What Saritos is saying is that there are people who have blonde hair when they are young. When they age, their hair is darker (not as blonde).  Actually, I'd say most people's hair darkens as they age, of course until the onset of gray hair. He's saying don't expect melitane to achieve a shade you maybe had when you were seven. Everybody knows that your goal is to make your eyebrows darker, so that is a moot point anyway.  

I may be wrong, but I think you may be confusing melitane with melotan. They are two different animals. You've tried the melotan on your brows with no success of darkening. I don't think melitane would work either. I think melotan is supposed to provide a richer hue to your skin when exposed to the sun. Basically, it gives one a darker tan than they would be able to achieve naturally.  Somebody on this forum mentioned that it darkened his beard, but now that it's the winter months, he is not using it.  The purpose of melitane is exactly what Saritos says, to get melanin into the hair bulb. Melitane is used in some sun tan lotions, and it's put in there because it stimulates MSH, thus providing a faster tan. It does more, but I will not get into that because I am not qualified to do so.  For the record, Saritos has stated in a previous forum that melitane has re-pigmented hairs on his head, but not in his whiskers.


@Saritos - I wouldn't think it's necessary to mix melitane with pseudocatalase.  If the pseudocatalase can be washed out after five minutes, then it's job is complete. I've seen your Ebay posting. Could you supply more information on how to, when, and how often to apply the product?  

If pseudo gets rid of the oxidative stress, and melitane stimulates the melanin producing process, add a little sun or UV, and we should all be good to go.
By troppo - 11/30/2013 6:33:18 AM
Update after 4+ months:
Wanted to updated everyone - been applying 2x day since July with product from pseudocatalase.com and for last 2 months been using product from pseudocatalase (via ebay).  I apply to the beard and have nothing positive to report unfortunately.  In a matter of fact I believe I have more white now.  I am not giving up though as I will continue to use for another couple months and hope for the white in my beard to at least stop spreading.  I also use a UV light want for 3-5 minutes 3x a week.  However, I have been a bit stressed lately so that could be a factor...





@T&B - Tell us more about your planned use of DMSO - as a carrrier agent for pseudocatalase?
I also will try anything and everything to try to halt the spread of white hair in my beard - not too concerned about on my head as I can easily dye thatSmile





Lastly, has anyone looked into gluthatione injections? 



By cylonjim - 6/2/2014 8:36:30 AM
On member Pseudocatalase:

This guy could not be more honest, trustworthy, and fair.  For example, when I reported to him that a batch I ordered seemed to have lost some efficacy before the expected time to expiration, he sent me a new batch free of charge, no questions asked.  He has answered every single nitpick question I have had.  He has been clear and honest the whole time.

These attacks on him are ridiculous.  Attacks like these discourage people from trying to contribute to these forums.  Why bother trying to contribute when Negative Nellies are going to attack you.  Not worth it.

On UV simply being harmful to unprotected skin:  NOT true, and the concept doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.  Why would nature make reasonable exposure to sunlight bad for you?  OVEREXPOSURE to UV can be potentially damaging, but that's the case with many things that would otherwise seem unquestionably innocuous.

The question is what is overexposure?  Read "The UV Advantage" by Dr. Michael Holick, which explains why UV is actually essential for health.  There is a chart in the back that tells you how much sunlight exposure your unprotected skin can handle based on skin complexion, time of year, and geographic location.  I would have to check to reconfirm, but I am almost 100% certain that at the recommended sunlight exposure for PC, no one is exposing themselves to harm.

On fact 7:  There is a very logical possible explanation as to why PC has not been mass produced by some big company.  If anybody can whip this stuff up at home at little expense, which could very well be the case, then there is essentially no margin on this stuff and there are zero barriers to entry.  Furthermore, there could be a lot more money to made selling existing products that address this target market.  Therefore the business case for this stuff could be terrible for big companies.

Finally, if it takes decades for the body to begin producing gray hair, absent some drastic agent to reverse this process, the type of which is often accompanied by undesirable side effects, I am not sure that it is reasonable to expect reversal in a fraction of the time it took this condition to develop.
By Dodge1980 - 9/14/2014 2:51:00 AM
Thanks for the responses. I would say that the stress I've been experiencing was initially due to a relationship (which has subsequently broken down) but now the stress is mainly about my hair greying - it's all I can think about at times. I've never really been one for worrying but of late it's like something changed in my mind and it seems to be bringing out the greys. I've bought the get away grey pills but have very little faith they'll work based on most reviews I've read. 
I shave my hair but the greys still seem really noticeable, particularly high on my temple and at the front of my hair line. Also my hair, due to becoming grey, seems really wiry, brittle and almost oily - I guess this is the effect of stress on the hair. 
By DDye - 5/6/2013 10:08:39 AM
No, but you can post a link to it.
By Young Einstein - 11/30/2010 10:27:15 AM
Hi Dirk,

In theory that might work. Instead of liver (which is full of catalase), you can buy pure catalase -- if you find a good source. There is powdered and liquid catalase, and it is sold by the barrel for the textile industry, so it should be available cheap somewhere.

Besides the dermaroller, you could also use liposomes or dmso to force the catalase into the follicles.

Gaizz found this source for liposomal catalase. Looks like a good product. If you plan on treating a large area, like your whole head, they would be pricey.
By DanRo - 3/30/2014 11:10:18 AM
Expect a lot of those products to start showing up on Amazon and ebay now that word is out about melitane. The same thing happened with the peptide matrixyl 3000, you can get the concentrated version of that too.

All these so-called "companies" are doing is buying the same exact GL200 peptide that sartios is selling then making creams or whatever with it, and probably at a ratio of 1 to 50 or less. You're better off imo mixing your own batch together, then you know what's in it and that you have the desired strength.

@stefanovic, thanks for your feedback regarding latisse, I wondered if anyone had tried it and had results.
By - 3/17/2013 10:53:33 PM
why does my hair feel so oily after only washing it 2 days prior?  this is driving me nuts triyng ti figure it out,any suggestions would be very helpful.Thank-you and yes i embrace my grey hair. glory crown,lol
By Transpower - 1/30/2013 2:51:16 AM
Turning lemons into lemonade....
By stefanovic - 4/22/2014 12:30:12 PM
@beefster: I'm experienced with both melanotan injectables and the nasal spray. I can tell you the melanotan nasal spray is haox. I've tried the highest dosages with zero success. Compare the costs of injectables ( you can have a vial for around 10 dollars these days) and nasal sprays and you'll see that vendors only want to approach people being scared of SQ injections.
At least I think that spray is based on melanotan and not on melitane. They both have an impact on MSH but melitane should be applied topically.

Did you make that helmet yourself? ( I am not technically skilled and would never ever do that) but the theory on catalase sounds very realistic. Hopefully we can also elaborate on that one.
By stefanovic - 4/6/2014 1:30:41 AM
Just a quick update: I'm almost 3 months into the pseudocatalase experiment, did it religiously twice a day and no results at all at this point. Will keep using it. I did the peroxide test once in a while and everything was just fine.

I actually found a product on amazon containing PC. The reviews are negative. I wonder what is wrong about the product. Maybe some knowledgable people can elaborate on it:

http://www.amazon.com/Re-pigmentation-Pseudocatalase-Stabilized-Formulation-Treatment/dp/B00DH134VG?tag=vglnk-c25-20


Maybe it's still too early to spot results for me. I randomly plucked 100 hairs ( luckily I have lots of hair so it doesnt show) and all greys were still grey at the root.
By StarGazer2 - 10/6/2013 7:05:09 AM
Hot off the USA Today presses today....here's proof the bogus grey hair supplements on the market just got their product ideas from the medical journals that have been previously referenced here.  

The problem is, these journal studies never showed that you can pop a pill and 'cure' grey hair as these "people" who started these "companies" claim.

Article also has a mention of L'Oreal (they have to get a plug in every couple months or so it seems)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/06/gray-hair-pills/2388619/
By Señorgringo - 11/1/2013 1:29:34 PM
Jcoireangus (11/1/2013)
One difference with Viaguard is that they are a legitimate company with a lengthy product line. The red flag is that depo-melanin is a radical departure  from their other products which seem to revolve around DNA testing. But I was willing to try their product because of that reputation. 


I'm fairly sure depo-melanin is working in a very limited way for me. But the results are so poor that I do t recommend it to anyone. My experiment ends once I finish what I first ordered. 


Without before/after pictures your observations are subjective and probably based on wishful thinking. I trade for a living and am intimately familiar with various cognitive biases that befall humans hoping for a particular outcome.
By EN8686 - 9/15/2014 7:23:31 PM
I tried Morgan's and couldn't get over the smell. Literally smells like an old folk's home.
By calc - 6/7/2011 4:36:56 PM
Looking into my issue some more Vitamin D increases testosterone which raises both erythropoietin and tyrosine hydroxylase, so it may be that for my case the elevated Vitamin D level caused both my raised rbc/hematocrit/hemoglobin and increased rate of grey hair. I should know within a few months if that is the case as my Vitamin D level comes back down to a normal level.
By DanRo - 2/24/2014 7:49:03 AM
@Ladd, products that contain melitane are available for purchase in the US but they are for use topically to the skin and are not being promoted for gray hair. I agree with stefanovic, do not underestimate large companies selling hair dyes etc to resist any new products that actually work at the molecular level to restore pigment. Not to put on a tinfoil hat but sometimes conspiracies do happen and with billions of dollars at stake it's not necessarily out of the question imo that real cures for these types of cosmetic problems would be suppressed or slowed.

On the other hand all we've seen so far are mostly in vitro and ex vivo studies regarding melitane's effectiveness at stimulating melanocytes. There was one study that used hair shampoo that claimed in vivo results but as of yet no before and after pictures. Altris gel is new so until more people try it and provide feedback we won't know how effective it is.  
By Jcoireangus - 8/13/2013 4:55:25 AM
The two bars are present but they don't include the image icon. 
By Ladd - 6/16/2014 6:07:54 AM
@stefanovic

I'm not sure the results will be gradual. It's a stimulant. Stimulants are instantaneous and have a ceiling. Imagine a graph that shoots straight up and then runs horizontal.

Last week I asked if you would be willing to share your before and after photos but you never responded. If you put up your photos from October and then your most recent ones it would be awesome. From there we can follow your progression into melitane in a really transparent and helpful way.

Looking forward to your results and hope it works out for you.
By calc - 10/4/2011 6:10:46 AM
calc (9/30/2011)
I think I will reverse my grey hair on next Monday, about time I finally do it.


Well I have definitely already noticed a difference in BH4 mediated things. Hopefully that will mean an increase in tyrosine for use in melanin. I've never been able to tan my entire life, only burn, and my hair started going grey when I was in high school.
By DDye - 2/27/2014 8:22:50 AM
to Zeno,

No, but that's obvious.

D Dye
By Gaizz - 12/23/2011 2:57:30 AM
I have not seen any results....Sad
By stefanovic - 7/28/2014 10:08:37 AM
It's a way to apply hair dye easier, but not the kinda solution people want on this board.
By Giants Fan - 2/22/2014 12:14:24 PM
Maybe Sodium Bicarbonate in water mixed with two parts DMSO to carry it thru the epidermis might work. Had an associate who used to swear by it for toothaches.
By troppo - 1/30/2014 6:31:24 AM
Few quick questions:

What does repigmentation look like on the hair follicle?  

White at top with pigment at the bulb?  

Conversely, what does a hair follicle look like that is losing pigment?





Hopefully someone can answer these questions as judging progress is difficult enough as it is Smile
By Englishbull - 8/31/2013 4:19:57 AM
Well its not looking good is it? I think there is only Beefster who can pick us up on this one...speaking of Beefster where are you man??

I'm two weeks in and haven't had the slightest of changes, not that i was expecting any this early, this is also on a shaved head. Viagaurd did say that i SHOULD see results quicker as i shave my hair.
By skmackie - 4/5/2011 9:45:41 PM
From Healthy Healing by Linda Page:

"The benefits of kombucha culture tonic:
- helps return gray hair to its natural color; thickens hair and strengthens nails"

Haven't tried it.
By stefanovic - 10/15/2014 1:42:00 AM
PS: I've been using the melitane for a few weeks now but I have major problems controlling the PH level. Right after mixing it, it's around 5 or even a bit below. When I add some baking soda ( just the smallest amount you can imagine) it goes straight up to 8.
Now I added a drop of acid and it got back to 6. I made many batches, some with DMI, some without and the ones without DMI seem to be even more unstable. But some get down in PH level after a few days, so I'm really looking forward to making the product consistent in PH level.
By Sabroto - 12/31/2010 8:18:10 AM
Hi I'm new here and I have been reading this topic and think we are close to finding a good solution. I'm not greying, but I'm a redhead and would like to have darker hair. I have been taking melanotan injections and it also darkened my hair, but I don't like the injection part of it and the fact that you have to store it in a fridge and stuff.

So I'm looking for another way to darken my hair without the use of dyes ( hate those roots, especially in lashes, eyebrows) and would like to test it soonly. Okay maybe darkening red hair and grey hair are a bit different, I just think it would be stupid to open another topic on it.

I read about this patent and personally I think it looks promising. I just need some help formulating it:

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100135944

the fact that J & J has it in their pipeline is a good sign I think.

Many thanks
By wisdom1st - 5/28/2013 4:46:34 PM
Kench - I do not believe I had any deficiencies.  My Father, and my brothers and sister are also premature. None of my siblings, nor myself were dealing with abnormal levels of stress when the graying process started, so I chalk it up to genetics. Its what is in one's DNA. I do not claim to be a biologist, but my guess is my genetics dictated that I would start producing less of the catalase enzyme under my scalp at an early age. Realistically, it was about 15 years earlier than normal. I have never looked into balding, for I have a full head of hair, so I have no idea why people bald.  If I were to guess, that is a genetic thing as well.

Since there is no treatment on the open market as of yet that reverses hair back to its original color, we can only speculate at this point. My guess is that a pre-mature lost the color the same way anybody would lose their color at any age with some possible exceptions. These exceptions would be people with vitamin deficiencies. It may speed up the graying process on somebody under constant intense stress, although that has not been proven.  Even if this were the case, I believe these people are experiencing the same ineffective chemical process like everybody else, only faster.  Keep this in mind.  Its possible that the pre-mature's catalase depletion is normal, and even people who never gray have the same depletion of this enzyme. It was mentioned that there are two other enzymes that are repair enzymes that also breakdown anti-oxidants. So in theory, when a hair follicle is bleached from the inside out, there are at least three enzymes that are either no longer there, they are not functioning, or they are just ineffective.  I do want to make it clear, a lot of what I stated in earlier posts are based on a gut feeling.

Somebody asked earlier if AussieDavid made that pseudo-catalase. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it is the right recipe. I read a 2003 article that stated it was extremely effective on 90% of the 33 patients with vitiligo. And two years later, there was no loss of any pigmentation that was gained. It did not say if the patients were using the cream all along for the two years.  AussieDavid, we're all waiting for your response.  If I could get my hands on the manganese II chloride, I would make it and try it out.
By MachineGhost - 9/22/2013 12:15:13 AM
This thread is way too long, so forgive me if this question has been asked before. 

But, why won't taking GliSODin, SODyzme or even catalase systemically fight the hydrogen peroxide in the hair follicles?

And it seems rather disturbing if grey hair is a marker for insufficient endogenous antioxidant production.    What am I missing?
By wisdom1st - 9/14/2013 4:49:51 AM
Tonifromafar posts on this site for the first time, and has a link to an Ebay web site that may be the most interesting read on the subject of pseudo catalase since the time the news broke back in May.  Information is shown on the post that verifies a purchase was made from Viagard, yet it was unnecessary to do so. Would it be wrong if Tonifromafar were the seller on that Ebay web site?  I for one would say no because the link is relevant at this time with regards to where this forum is at. There is no pressure applied to purchase, and the only marketiing is within the link itself, not from the post.

I have ideas and thoughts about that link, but I'd rather not share them at this time because I will gt too lengthy.  I hope everybody can view this link and share their thoughts. To this point, nobody has come forth with absolute surety that Depo works, and it may be time for some of us to explore other avenues.  
By Pseudocatalase - 2/26/2014 1:09:49 AM
@wisdom1st, I would not add DMSO to any product intended for skin use. Nor do I think the FDA or other consumer protection bodies would get excited about it. I think acetyl hexapeptide-1 in the devotedcreation links is Melitane from Lucas Meyer, used without the trademark (probably bought from Lucas Meyer).  I don't think natural catalase would be absorbed at all, it is an enormous protein. Also, you are wrong about sodium bicarbonate being the acting agent to disproportionate H2O2 in pseudocatalase. It's a complex explanation, but the chelating agent and the manganese (as an ion, not a solvent) are critical.
By Englishbull - 11/16/2013 7:18:50 AM
@wisdom1st - Firstly i believe in what you say as i for one can believe in your character, and with how you have come across on this board. You are not trying to sell anything and just have a general interest in reversing your grey hair. Well done in your results, this is great news!!

I have been using depo about 2 months now (i have missed some applications) but im on the second bottle. Im not getting any positive vibes from it all, dont really believe in it any more. I am gonna use this second bottle up and then that is. Viaguard also said to me that i should see results quicker as i shave my head, but doesnt seem to be the case (as like everybody else on here it seems.)

I really dont believe in Viaguard and even if it does pass the test (i havent bothered trying) i still do not think that it works.

I like how Pseudocatalase has come across on here and believe he is genuine, could i have a link to your page please? And what would you recommend for me as i shave my head with a razor (it does grow out really quickly)

Thanks 
By calc - 6/7/2011 5:38:53 AM
I started going grey in my late teens, but just a small amount until this year when I started taking vitamins. I recently found out that I had managed to over supplement Vitamin D and my level on May 20 is now down to 97ng/dL. I have a feeling I had managed to get up to somewhere around 150-160ng, oops. I have had several different blood tests run, CBC, Cu, Mg, Se, Zn, amino profile and the main thing I have noticed other than Vit D is that my tyrosine level is below the normal range and my Phenylalanine level was pretty much center of normal, so I don't think I have PKU, but I might be wrong. I have started taking L-Tyrosine caps to see if it will help any but I think it might be too low due to having over supplemented Vitamin D. From articles/studies I have read it appears that Vitamin D can increase the use of tyrosine in the body, and if true then getting my level down might restore my tyrosine level and thus some of my hair color. Anecdotally some Marshall Protocol followers have also reported restoration of hair color as a side effect of following it.
By Zeno - 2/24/2014 5:44:39 AM
DDye

When will LEF start developing the anti gray shampoo ?

Keep us updated. We are eager to follow this project closely as soon as it starts.

Thanks again !
By stefanovic - 8/24/2014 1:20:20 AM
I've noticed the melitane having an impact on hair color, so far only the natural pigmentation going darker. Unfortunately I couldn't continue the experiment for a while as the supplier was on holidays, so next month I'll have to start all over again which is a bit frustrating. Otherwise I would have known much sooner if it works. It took me two months to see first results. I hope to find out of melitane without PC would work for white hairs as well. I assume it's logical that white hair needs more time than red hair.
I mixed my own PC shampoo as well with no results, as you said  it looks like there's a difference between premixed versions and the ones you make yourself. It would be great being able to order bulk kits with instructions on how to mix it properly. People won't have to go through the hassle of re-ordering every few months and in the end it will bring on many new customers.
By stefanovic - 1/14/2014 7:50:07 PM
I can't afford buying many shampoos just to hope one of them will work. I could waste 50 bottles before finding something that might work. I really have zero experience when it comes to testing and experimenting, so I would definitely need more advice on what is likely a good shampoo to mix it with.
By stefanovic - 1/14/2014 7:40:55 AM
I received the powders today. Do you think it's okay to mix it with baby shampoo?
By Wally123 - 8/16/2013 10:12:16 PM
Can someone who is using Depo Melanin please try it also on Grey eyebrows. Mine are black so unfortunately cant use it there.

As mentioned previous the life-cycle of hair in the eyebrow is very short ( 3 months) compared to head hair which can be a year or two.

If Depo Melanin was to work the theory would suggest we can prove it quicker on people with grey eyebrows whom apply it there also.
By Pseudocatalase - 6/24/2014 11:08:45 AM
@stefanovic, let me explain. Shipping single bottles to Europe is insanely expensive. You can make it work by producing it in Europe or by sending it to Europe in crates, and then selling/shipping from there. We are not set up to do the former, and the latter requires a longer shelf life. We hope we can offer it there soon. Sorry. 
By Ladd - 4/18/2014 10:27:18 AM
Everyday for 6 months it has been melitane, melitane, melitane.

There are a tremendous amount of resources available for people to make any solution they dreamed of. I've seen numerous message boards dedicated to making homemade cosmetic mixtures.

You can also contact the creators and/or the suppliers of the products your interested in.

Someone knows the info you need and most of the time they will help if you don't approach like a caveman.

If you wanted a PC/Melitane solution that smelled like Unicorns, you could do it. The web is awesome.

Everything is there! It comes down to 1) fear or 2) laziness. I have not and will not sign the petition based on that principle alone.
By BoB.org - 4/17/2014 8:46:04 AM
Zeno (4/17/2014)
Zeno (4/7/2014)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662917/

Efficacy and Safety of Pueraria lobata Extract in Gray Hair Prevention: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study

Seong Jin Jo, Hyoseung Shin, [...], and Oh Sang Kwon

Additional article information

Abstract

Background

Graying of hair-a sign of aging-raises cosmetic concerns. Individuals with gray hair often look older than others their age; therefore, some dye their hair for aesthetic purposes. However, hair colorants can induce many problems including skin irritation, allergic reaction and hair-breakage.

Objective

This randomized, double-blind clinical trial was performed in order to examine the effects of APHG-1001, a compound including an extract from Pueraria lobata, on graying hair.

Methods

A total of 44 female subjects were randomly treated with either APHG-1001 or placebo twice daily for 24 weeks. Using the phototrichogram analysis, a count of newly developed gray hair was estimated. Investigator assessment and subject self-assessment were also performed in order to evaluate the efficacy of the compound.

Results

The mean number of newly developed gray hair at 24 weeks was 6.3/cm2 in the APHG-1001 group and 11.4/cm2 in the placebo group; the difference was statistically significant (p<0.05). However, the investigator assessment and subject self-assessment did not show any significant change in the gross appearance of hair grayness by the end of the study. No severe adverse events in either group were observed. Moreover, the incidence of adverse events did not differ between the groups.

Conclusion

This clinical trial revealed that APHG-1001, which contains an extract of P. lobata, could prevent the development of new gray hair without any remarkable adverse effects. Thus, it can be considered as a viable treatment option for the prevention of gray hair.

Keywords: Aging, Antioxidants, Gray hair, Hair, Pueraria lobata


To LEF:

Why not sell a spray similar to the one used in the study ? Colorless tonic spray containing 1.0% P. lobata ethanolic extract, 0.5% Pleuropterus multiflorus extract and 0.5% ginkgo leaf extract.


1) It has been scientificaly proven to prevent gray hair. 

2) Its easy to make.

3) It souldnt be too expensive.

4) It will sell fast and make a lot of money for anti-aging research.

Its about time LEF start to give gray hair the same atention it puts on wrinkles or sagging necks.

Its a no brainer. 



Very interesting information.

@ Beefster also interested to hear what type of supplements / vitamins and minerals would be best to start taking to prevent / tackle grey hair
By prestige93 - 4/15/2014 2:53:20 AM
but that company sells the product worldwide? What is the price?
By cylonjim - 4/21/2014 1:48:25 PM
Truth and Beauty's images are viewable if you delete the extra period mistakenly included at the end of each link.
By xtian - 10/19/2011 9:49:10 AM
I ordered grey defence the 12th of sept... not yet arrived... they said they would give me a link to track my order, they never did... As I live in Italy I know custom gives a hard time for products coming from US and Canada, so... If I get it, I'll let you know if it works
By DanRo - 11/10/2012 7:41:15 AM
Gaizz (11/2/2012)
DanRo, any results with Careprost?


No haven't tried it yet because I'm too fearful of turning the face skin darker. Might work on the temple area for anyone who has gray there. I'm still waiting for Allergan to release their Phase 2 studies for hair loss, supposedly they used a different formula than Latisse where not only is it stronger but it penetrates down to the follicle. That might lessen any topical side effects.
By Pseudocatalase - 1/23/2014 8:43:49 AM
Hi @stefanovic. Your step 1 activates the pseudocatalase. At that point, if you want to see if it works, put a drop of the pseudocatalase solution onto a clean surface, and cover half the drop with hydrogen peroxide. It should bubble. Anytime you want to test if it is active, put one drop of the pseudocatalase solution onto a clean, dry, surface, and cover half the drop with hydrogen peroxide. 
  
If you are trying to find a good carrier, mix the pseudocatalase solution with the carrier (I would recommend only using a small amount of the carrier and a small amount of the solution in the proper ratio). Then test the carrier-pseudocatalase combination for activity by putting a drop on a clean, dry, surface, and covering half the drop with a drop of hydrogen peroxide. You can re-test whenever you like. If you know the carrier is good, I would recommend every week or two until you get used to how long the solution stays active in that carrier. The rest of the time keep the carrier in a closed container. 

Note: if the carrier is incompatible, it will bubble with the pseudocatalase solution when they are first mixed. Even good carriers will bubble a little, but a bad carrier will be inactive in a few hours. A good carrier will retain activity for many months.

Hope this helps. 
By EN8686 - 9/18/2014 7:14:31 PM
I've seen that before, its an old e-book that screams SCAM.

Lots of good points made by everyone. I agree with much of the things Ladd said. Its good that everyone keeps trying stuff but I maintain the position the perception of grey hair needs to change in order for practical and powerful solutions to emerge.

Gleevec is interesting and exactly the type of the drug that should be researched, to see what component of it brings color to hair.
By DDye - 8/14/2014 7:55:08 AM
If they do, let the buyer beware. Second to worst case scenarios would be a product that does nothing, no delivery or misuse of one's credit card information. Worst case would be receiving something harmful. It would be better to engage in this type of discussion offline.
By DDye - 7/27/2012 5:44:29 PM
Welcome to the Forums, jomic.

D Dye
Moderator
By AussieDavid - 11/12/2013 2:48:44 PM
Ladd (11/11/2013)
[quote]StarGazer2 (11/11/2013)
I trust Aussie David.  He (along with a few others of us here) go back to the original LEF board.    We've been here for 10 years.


Aussie David said on 11/1 he had only begun psuedocatalase shampoo"recently".


Yes, that's correct. If you scroll back to the bottom of page 52 of this forum, I posted back in August that I had started using Depo-Melanin. My reference to being almost 3 months and no results did not specifically refer to the shampoo. It will be 3 months at the end of November that I have been using products that contain pseudocatalase. 

I started DepoMelanin in August. I started Pseudocatalase's shampoo in October. My first batch of DepoMelanin failed the hydrogen peroxide test. My second batch passed. The shampoo from 'Pseudocatalase' passed. 

I am continuing to use both products. 
By StarGazer2 - 10/15/2012 6:34:53 PM
Your response to my post is utter mule muffins.

With the way your slanted it, you make it sound like fo-ti works for the majority of people and it doesn't work for a minority.

Hardly.   There is NO  scientific proof fo-ti reverses grey hair - no independent clinical studies whatsoever. 

In fact, even the anectodal evidence online is filled with stories from the vast majority of users saying it did nothing for them.  And as Hairy said above, there are a few random post from the Internet on fo-ti that have been re-destributed across forums this creating a misperception.  I would suspect those posts came from fo-ti peddlers.

And if you're using this board as some kind of scientific proof, well the vast majority of reliable posters (those who have tried various regimens and have been around the forum for awhile) have reported it did not work for them after an extensive trial.

Now you will make all kinds of excuses for that (they used the wrong brand, they went to the wrong side of the street in Chinatown, they didn't take it while standing on their head, etc.).

I'm not going to waste any more time answering your response as you so off base, it's not even worth the 1:20 mins I put into this post alone.  

Don't waste your time applying for a job at the CDC in Atlanta.
By Transpower - 1/3/2013 5:14:06 AM
Albedo, that gives a new meaning to "golden hair."  By the way, the MSM I've been taking has not caused any further darkening of my mustache after the initial bit, sorry to say.
By DDye - 2/5/2014 10:21:19 AM
That was intended for the group.
By stefanovic - 3/12/2014 12:30:39 PM
@vlc: with discoveries like pseudocatalase and melitane, we are for sure coming much closer to a big breakthrough compared to a couple of months to years ago. It's more scientific then wheatgrass of stuff like paba
By stefanovic - 1/28/2014 6:31:19 AM
Hey Dave, have you noticed any results so far?
By Tonifromafar - 6/1/2014 12:20:27 PM
Ladd (5/31/2014)
@Tonifromafar Depo Melanin engaged in spamming which included fake facebook and youtube accounts. Inverted results in this case is a ridiculous idea. It takes many years for people to go fully white.


I misquoted the message I was answering to. I meant the pictures of Santa's success on reversing grey. In the span of months I can appreciate (sadly) the progress of it.


By Pseudocatalase - 2/19/2014 6:58:00 AM
@wisdom1st, yes, we provide calcium in Pc-KUS. I am uncertain about the CaCl2 rinse. 

@fastingly  Peptide TA-5 is not melitane, it is something else. Melitane would be acetyl hexapeptide-1.

@stefanovic, send an email, and we can track down when your product went out. 
  
For those curious about melitane, I think it has great potential. Alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone (Alpha-MSH) is the natural response to UVB exposure. It triggers multiple pathways both in the skin and centrally that relate to different things, including stimulating melanocytes. Alpha-MSH is a 13 amino acid peptide. Lucas Meyer isolated the binding sites as 4 amino acids in the 13 amino acid chain, modified these 4 amino acids into a 6 AA peptide, acetylated it, and tested it for binding and alpha-MSH-like activity in vitro and in vivo. You can bet they ran through a LARGE number of peptides in their efforts to find the smallest one that would work well. As such, it is, BY FAR, the best bet on the market for topical use. The other Alpha-MSH drugs are actually longer than Alpha-MSH (more than 13 amino acids), so their skin penetration would be worse. You would really need to inject them to see a response (which people seem to do, anyway). Kudos to Lucas Meyer, I hope it can help people with vitiligo and graying hair. 
By Ladd - 8/22/2014 7:14:29 AM
I can safely say after 8 months of continuous use pseudocatalase was NOT effective in reversing OR preventing gray hair.

Regardless, it was money well spent (in hindsight I would still take the bet).
By fastingly, Kelton - 1/7/2014 7:27:35 AM
troppo, I would actually have to wonder a little bit about your copper intake if you are supplementing in addition to all that copper-rich food.  Copper is highly necessary for your body to build the protective enzymes but there is also a fine line where excess copper will very much work against your anti-oxidant status.  Amazing all that you are doing, I wish you had better results, but could there possibly be too much copper in your diet? 
By Phoenix - 3/27/2011 8:43:33 AM
I been reading this thread quite for a while now. And like most of the posters, I've been experimenting myself as well. I had some very little success using PABA (some 5 - 10% of the body hair changed within the first 3 months after taking 500 mg/day), but then nothing happened any more. So I stopped with PABA, and tried something different.

It is often mentioned, that the acid-base balance can also have some influence on the availability of minerals for the hair follicles. I don't want to go too much in detail here, the web provides enough sources describing this. Checking my amount of acids in my body, by measuring it simply in the urine, I found that my pH values are much below recommended values. I found that my nutrition is driving acids, because I love to eat meat, noodles, bread, beer ... And  I consume much too low amounts of vegetables (although I consume fruits and fruit juices regularly). 

There is a various possibilities to improve the acid-base balance to higher pH values. The best way is definitely to change nutrition, to more vegetables and less acid driving food, and no consumption of alcohol. But this requires much discipline, and possibly does not lead to fast success, although it is the right way long term. Short term, basic powders with basic minerals and citrates can improve pH of the body.

So I decided to lift up my pH Nov 2010, and I had some success. Especially my body hair "down under" started to grow black at the roots. I had about 10% gray there, and now most of them disappeared. Also chest hair is turning black, but the process seems to be much slower there. On my head, I still did not really find hair changing yet (although it is difficult to see for me as I dye my hair, which is more than 50% gray). But as I see the success at the body hair, I am still convinced it will work, once my pH value is normal again.

As I did not read any experience in this forum about pH values yet, I would like to know if there is anybody out there having experienced some relation with low pH and gray hair, and possibly also some experience with normalizing pH and reversing gray hair. So if you can tell a similar story (but also if you have strong information that this is all bull****), I would be very grateful for an answer.
By Gaizz - 6/13/2014 4:06:55 AM
A week ago I start to use this product that contains pseudocatalasi and melitane. http://www.golstore.it/index.php/tricomelan-plus.html

By stefanovic - 4/14/2014 1:27:46 PM
Hey Pseudocatalase: so after 12 weeks you cannot really say that you're not responding. all the non pigmented hairs I have are really white.


To the person being interested in Morgan's pomade. I contacted the company and their reply was:
- With regards to new hair growth this will not grow out darker. Only the hair on the head that is directly applied with the pomade will gradually turn darker. We recommend less frequent hair washing in the early stages to quicken the darkening process. However, if you require to wash your hair more often after the first 3 weeks then this will fine but obviously the degree of darkening that you see may be reduced compared to if you wash your hair less frequently. The pomade is not a permanent way to darken hair like hair a dye, but achieves a gradual more natural looking darker appearance.

Personally I'd even prefer a dye to a product that washes off and colors your coat when it rains and your bathwater.

Regarding the melitane I noticed doctors claim the 5 percent is the way to go:   http://www.healthcaremagic.com/premiumquestions/Suggest-treatment-for-premature-graying-of-hair/90606
By utopia - 7/31/2012 11:19:49 PM
Can anybody direct me to a blog on hair loss? More painful than grey hair....Thanks
By Pseudocatalase - 9/26/2013 4:28:02 AM
stargazer2, yes, we are watching the melanocortin receptor agonist trials closely. They target the pigment cell replenishment directly, in the same way that UV light does, only without causing the damage that the UV causes. However, melanocytes are also pretty reactive cells (melanoma as an example), so side effects could be an issue. But, maybe it will work out, that would be great. It would be a huge boost for vitiligo patients. It may also result in an overall body tan, but maybe that is not such a bad thing. The pigment cell replenishment is the slowest part of the process, so you can achieve the biggest impact on the speed of results by targetting it. 

Yes, we recommend people stop using our pseudocatalase product if they don't see results in 3-4 months. It is a slow process, but not that slow! For certain, some people will not respond at all. Those people should not be using our product. All we can really guarantee is that our product will get rid of hydrogen peroxide in the skin. Many people with gray hair do see results. But, in 3-4 months, so far no one has seen full repigmentation. White becomes gray with mixed pigmented hairs, and it progresses from there. One really interesting observation is that people with two pigments of hairs (like brown and blond) have often not seen any blond for decades before the hair goes gray. Using the pseudocatalase, the blond shows up again.  We don't know how far it will go, because we anticipate that will require at least 6-8 months, and we are not that far along yet. If we do enough eBay sales we will certainly list on Amazon. Thanks for your interest. 
By Pseudocatalase - 11/16/2013 1:55:58 PM
@wisdom1st  Yes, that is correct.  Neribas is the base outlined in Schallreuter's published work to which I refer.  It is available, from time to time, for international purchase via ebay.  With regard to the shampoo, we have seen stability out to the 3-4 month mark, which we thought would provide adequate time for a daily wash/rinse routine with an 8 oz bottle.  As outlined in the listing, we feel that 3 to 4 months should be sufficient time for the customer to deduce whether or not results were being seen.

@senorgringo The chelating agent (EDTA) plays an essential role with respect to preservation and compound stability.  This is outlined in Schallreuter's published work as well along with variations in formulation.  As touched upon, the difference is not the ingredients per se, but the way they are mix.  Neribas would be an excellent transport vehicle if readily available for purchase.    

@Englishbull I typically recommend the lotion for use whenever applicable.  Its use is twofold, serving as an excellent conditioner/moisturizer.  It is odorless as well.  See link below or feel free to contact at 
By Englishbull - 1/14/2014 11:30:07 AM
This is why I wasn't keen on just purchasing the powder, I wouldn't know were to begin or have confidence that the  solution is active.

If the pre-mixed lotion was available in the UK I would already be using it. Although as wisdom1st states I have also read the other sellers info on eBay and he states that it can't be pre-mixed as it will not be active when the user buys it?? He is basically saying you have to do it when you receive the power. I also thought he was having a few digs regarding pseudocatalase's description I.e comparing. Did you pick up on this wisdom1st?
By Beefster - 9/25/2012 4:15:47 AM
Thanks Transpower and good luck with your MSM trial. 

I don't recommend Emu for gray hair, but did have some very minor results with some graying hairs that had not been long in the graying/whitening process. 
By calc - 5/26/2012 6:36:19 AM
brm (5/26/2012)
Jen (5/20/2012)

Just found this.  Note that he mentions keeping the head lower than the heart for restoring hair color.  My own experience has borne this out, as a longtime practitioner of the yoga headstand.  My hair is still mostly brown at 60+.  I plan to try copper salicylate as well.

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.html

"Hair is coloured by the production of melanin inthe hair bulbs. There are two kindsof melanin, eumelanin which coloursthe hair brown to black, and pheomelanin that makesit yellow-blond to red. Different combinations of these two kinds of melanindetermine then the exact colour and shade of the hair . . . "

 

I've been taking a copper complex, mentionned as "highly absorbable" by its manufacturer: copper bisglyscinate, by Solgar. It has not done a thing to my grey. For years. But I'm willing to hear about the contrary. As to this headstand thing, well, the objection is still the same: why should some people need to do that whereas they didn't when they were younger, and why will other never have to well into their 60's or 70's. Genetics remains key to my mind and as long as it is not properly deciphered, we're stalled.

My latest try is this: http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=94600&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Since early january, I've been taking a tspful and a half on an empty stomach every morning. The grey still seems to be getting on, though I have found a hair, with each month, that showed a black root and a white tip. So, five of them, altogether. Not exactly the 'guaranteed result" this link speaks about. Anyway, I'll carry that thing on for at least another 6 months, since I've got as much to go in my cupboard.

I have plenty of copper also but still have grey hair. I have been looking into how to 'maximize' health in general though and found something odd about myself, which is that my manganese was very low. Most things written about manganese indicate that it is almost never too low and that the risk is in getting too much. Trying to get my level to the center of the normal range has been a slow process due to being scared to take too much at once. I am currently up to 24mg/day,  more than double the UL, which might finally be enough to do it. I should know in a couple months when I check my manganese blood level again. Manganese is required for SOD2 (MnSOD), among other things, without which all sorts of bad things can happen.

I also recently had a hair element test done, which while not as reliable as standard blood testing, showed that my manganese hair level was still a full standard deviation lower than average even after taking 16mg/day for quite a while, based on the results of the blood test.
By DDye - 9/20/2012 10:28:14 AM
Barry,

It's just a popular thread that people have an ongoing interest in.

Regarding posts, anyone can delete any of their posts at any time.

D Dye
Moderator
By Ace_Road - 7/28/2013 5:28:57 PM
Beefster - I'm pretty confused from the results you mentioned about your son.  Depo-Melanin is not a hair dye, so unless your son shaves his head frequently, I do not understand how you would see any change in color to the existing hair because the already gray, visible hair shaft would not change color.  It would only be new hair growth that would show any sign of change.  Could you clarify?  
By Romi - 11/13/2013 8:20:56 AM
Hi Pseudocatalase,

I am pretty sure I bought it from your account at ebay. You are the only one who sells the powder, the lotion and the shampoo in the same page. 

I dont know how to search you on ebay using your email. 
By Ladd - 1/17/2014 8:44:53 AM
@troppo

Tumeric:

http://www.vitiligo.eu.com/turmeric.php

Vitiligo and diet: A theoretical molecular approach with practical implications:*

http://www.ijdvl.com/article.asp?issn=0378-6323;year=2009;volume=75;issue=2;spage=116;epage=118;aulast=Namazi

"Mango, cashew, pistaschio, oak, cassava, areca nut, red chillies, cherry, raspberry, cranberry, blackberry and tea contain naturally occurring plant phenol and polyphenolic compounds (tannins), which may aggravate vitiligo"

Omega-3, apples, onions, and whey protein could be beneficial.

*This publication is from the Shiraz University of Medical Sciences in Iran (generally a caution flag), but the data cited appears valid.
By xtian - 2/20/2011 2:03:18 AM
"was wondering if anyone used the blackstrap molasses."


I did... no results... at all
By xtian - 10/16/2013 8:18:18 PM
If they look like they've been dyed they don't look that good after all Hehe
By sartios - 1/25/2014 7:27:51 AM
Hi again, i work in a cosmetic industry and we use MELITANE for antisolaire products, we have it in 1 lt botlle, i think i can send you some of it if you want.. and the recipe of lotion that i made it..
By stefanovic - 6/25/2014 5:15:02 AM
@Ace Road: who gave you the DMI formula? I got it from an ebay seller, been using Melitane with DMI and water at a 5%/ 5%/90% ratio.
I'm almost two weeks in. No one really elaborated on the fact DMI is a good option as a carrier. The seller told me that I should see results in 2-3 months.

@Ladd: good idea

@Pseudocatalase: did his skin become tanned because of the solution? Did he apply it on his face as well?

Melanotan starts darkening hair after 2-3 weeks, but I'm talking about low pigmented hair, not white hair. I don't know if you'll have to wait longer with a lotion.
By stefanovic - 2/15/2014 6:09:29 AM
Melitame is indeed something to watch out for.

Before the cortisol issue was discussed. How else can you declare that I have gone almost white in less than a year. It must be something else than natural aging.
By wisdom1st - 8/19/2013 1:33:15 PM
@Zeno,
I think Stargazer is the most knowledgeable person within this forum with regards to L'Oreal claims of reversing or halting the graying process, and the posts in this forum have been far from positive toward L'Oreal. If you are stating correctly what you've read, then it's further confirmation that L'Oreal continues to rattle on about this topic, yet they really don't have a clue.
By prestige93 - 4/11/2014 10:05:02 AM
So, the extract from Pueraria lobata is another ingredient to join to pseudocatalase and melitaneSmile
By DrBailey - 1/17/2011 10:33:35 AM
I agree glycation and oxidation are the major causes of aging. I have been using LEF supplements for years and I have very little gray hair at 56 yo. I am just finishing my second book Metabolic Syndrome. This book helps people reverse metabolic sundrome, diabetes and aging.
By Gaizz - 6/13/2014 7:54:39 AM
stefanovic (6/13/2014)
I wonder what that TRIOCOMPLEX CX17 is?
The other PC-melitane product seems to be very expensive and you never know what amounts they have used ( probably too low)
Melitane 4% (he told me one that worked to the product...)
By stefanovic - 9/17/2014 4:21:56 AM
@H8grey: regimens based on more good fats in our diet are always a plus.
@Dodge: you can contact our forum member named pseudocatalase or wikeybio@hotmail.com, they're asian supplier.
I am going to try both to see what works best.
By ajanthony - 2/12/2014 12:06:38 PM
Any thoughts on using a topical mixture of baking soda and water on the scalp  for about 5-10 minutes before showering?  It is supposed to neutralize any hydrogen peroxide in a very short time and it is inexpensive.
By EN8686 - 3/26/2014 2:03:18 PM
You're right about the younger people part. I literally feel like my youth is slipping away from me, and I'm just on the cusp of turning 28. I had hope the grey wouldn't spread that fast, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm sure my stress over the situation is speeding it up.

People are already starting to make comments and its only going to get worse. This is really killing my confidence and putting me in a really bad place. At least its nice to know there are others out there dealing with this.
By BigBraLover - 5/9/2013 3:00:31 PM

Hmmm...

"One Gray Hair

July 17, 2003

Did you know that having just one gray hair before the age of 30 can mean you and you family members have an increased risk for developing thyroid dysfunction?

Thyroid Dysfunction and Prematurely Gray Hair

It has been common medical knowledge for years that individuals who gray prematurely (one gray hair before age 30) are at increased risk for thyroid dysfunction. This means that the genes for thyroid dysfunction tend to be found on the side of the family where relatives have been prematurely gray . . . "

Reference:  http://www.allthyroid.org/news/archive/one_gray_hair.html

By calc - 9/30/2011 10:24:11 AM
I think I will reverse my grey hair on next Monday, about time I finally do it.

Assuming it actually works I'll explain what I did. I have high hopes for it working considering what I have recently noticed in my blood test results.

What I noticed was that my tryptophan level was very high and my tyrosine level was very low. I think I know how to fix both and if it works then I will likely be producing sufficient melanin again.

I'm waiting until Monday due to taking a SpectraCell nutrient test at that time.

Update: I forgot to mention the reason I am so optimistic is, that via doing things I now better understand, I have made myself significantly more grey over the past year. I think I understand what is going on now and think I have started to reverse the process as of Oct 3. If it works it will probably take at least a month to actually be noticeable.
By DDye - 11/11/2013 4:47:07 AM
Truth and Beauty, welcome to the Forums.

D Dye
Moderator
By stefanovic - 3/12/2014 6:41:50 AM
Thanks, Pseudocatalase. When did Santa started to notice a change? At the 3 months mark I barely see a difference ( just to put my mind at ease - I'm 7 weeks into it and when randomly pulling some white hairs, all roots are still white)
By wisdom1st - 1/12/2014 6:15:27 AM
@pseudocatalase - the process is making more sense to me.  

Everyone- if you look at the last pictures that pseudocatalase posted, you will see a difference. This gentleman appears to be a more fair skinned individual (note: scalp pink). People like this never obtain that silver look through the graying process. They pretty much get white hair from the get go. But even though they are white, when they continue to lose pigmentation, the hair actually gets even whiter. From what pseudocatalase said, this individual's hair pigmentation was near the end of the line with regards to having pigmentation.

You can see follicles that have complete pigment in the front, as well as on top where there is some thinning at the part. In all likelihood, there are some mixed in all over (just cannot see the root).  Pseudocatalase stated that roughly half the hairs on his head have some pigment. This of course is an estimation, but what I think he is driving at is the shade of white has reversed back some. So even though it may still be white, it was a brighter white before. Now, about half his hair has zero pigmentation, and the other half has some or full pigmentation. If this individual gains another 10% pigmentation, he will definitely have that salt and pepper look. 

I have been using the product 14 weeks, and as I mentioned, I have definitely responded. I am seeing hair follicles that are dark in areas where there were no dark hairs, and there seems to be more of them than the last time I reported.  It is a very slow process, but as long as there is progress, I will continue. I do want to note that I am not using anything special for UV, and I am only using the product once a day. It's winter where I am at, and my head has barely been exposed to the outside elements. 

I recall a young person asking if the product could prevent gray hair if only used twice a week. If I were to guess, I would think it would help by at least slowing the graying process. I wish this product were available when I was younger because I knew it was in my genetics to gray early.  
By Pseudocatalase - 5/16/2014 6:49:06 AM
Hi prestige93,

not really anything new for now. New stuff is always in the pipeline, but rarely ready when called for. We will release new updates the instant they are ready, and those will be posted here. 

As a side note, we do sell our powder in Europe, and it is 4-5 times more active than other available powders, and can be mixed with lotions/shampoos that have been mentioned in this thread. 

-pseudocatalase
By Pseudocatalase - 1/3/2014 1:23:52 AM
@wisdom1st, the product shipped internationally is two packets of powder and instructions on how to mix. Lotion or shampoo is US only for now. The two packets of powder will last indefinitely until mixed and placed in a suitable carrier and container. Thereafter it should last at least 4 months if the container is kept closed. 
By Ladd - 2/27/2014 9:39:07 AM
@wisdom1st "The purpose of melitane is exactly what Saritos says, to get melanin into the hair bulb."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BLHnH0K4F4IJ:www.scsformulate.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Melitane-Gray-Hair-One-pager.pdf+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
"To fight back hair graying, Lucas Meyer Cosmetics has developed Melitane®, a biomimetic peptide derived from alpha-MSH. Melitane® stimulates melanin synthesis by melanocytes and also favours melanin transfer from melanocytes into keratinocytes."

http://www.fasebj.org/content/23/7/2065.full.pdf :
"Generation of H2O2 has been attributed to its intrinsic release from the melanogenesis pathway, ultimately yielding apoptosis of hair follicle melanocytes (HFMs) and DNA damage."

Apoptosis is programmed cell death. The only way to get the melanocytes to return is by removing the H202 and getting UVB exposure. Melitane is otherwise useless for already white (or similar colored) hair because it cannot stimulate something that doesn't exist. If one has or gets to the point of having peppered strands of hair it could make a difference in appearance. Pseudocatalase puts the train back on the tracks and UVB makes the wheels turn. Melitane only makes the train LOOK like it's going faster, but it's not. I do think it would be interesting to test. The importance and expectations of Melitane need to brought back into focus though.

Edit:
To Pseudocatalase:
I'm confused as to where the new melanocytes come from in the hair follicle? If the hair follicle IS the main reserve then how does that work if it's depleted by H202?


By Englishbull - 8/2/2013 7:05:53 AM
Beefster thanks for the reply! At least you believe in the product and that gives us hope, as I have been reading alot of other reviews on the Internet about Depo and people have been saying it doesn't work!!
By fastingly, Kelton - 5/30/2013 5:03:02 AM
For what it's worth, I've noticed that regularly using (once per week) ketoconazole shampoo seems to have darkened my hair, diminishing a certain amount of color-loss I was experiencing while having ZERO EFFECT on the full-on grey hairs.
 
Let me explain. . . I was noticing a bit of color-fade in all of my naturally light-brown hair, where my hair was becoming lighter overall, kind-of fading into a couple of shades lighter which I couldn't really attribute to the sun. . . a few months of weekly ketoconazole treatments made this fading diminish.  But I repeat, the actual full-on grey hairs on the sides of my head experienced no effect at all; only the hair which still had it's pigment became darker, the grey hairs remain.
By DanRo - 12/7/2013 7:58:05 AM
Some peptides do work and is a proven technology for doing what the company claims. Sederma's matrixyl 3000 is useful for stimulating collagen, at least to many people who have claimed to use it. There's too many positive comments on the internet and elsewhere imo for them all to be spam posts.

As far as gray hair no doubt it's this type of methodology that will be the way it gets successfully treated. I have no knowledge of Lucas Meyer but they advertise their melitane as a peptide that prevents and reverses graying. It's sold as Altris gel and is being prescribed by dermatologists for premature graying. As of yet I haven't seen anything posted on it but if it has been or someone has tried it hopefully they'll let us know the results.
By Slider - 9/1/2013 8:56:45 AM
http://www.vitiligo.eu.com/turmeric.php

Are any of you guys trying depo melanin eating a lot of spices?
By StarGazer2 - 10/2/2013 9:05:28 AM
Pseudocatalase - whether or  not your product works for grey hair, I want you to know that I appreciate your contribution to this forum and thank you for answering my questions. 

I am hoping that your formulation has success in the marketplace. 
By StarGazer2 - 10/30/2013 6:06:38 AM
If crapola like this can sell 50,000 units, imagine what a product that actually reverses grey hair would pull in:

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/10/29/5861662/getawaygrey-announces-record-sales.html

Textbook case on how to get rich in America.  Fool enough people.
By BoB.org - 2/28/2014 8:30:51 AM
Also very interested in the potential for melitane to darken the hair the way melanotan does. What stefanovic is saying makes a lot of sense and it would be great to have research done in that area. Would love to try it on my ginger facial hair for when I am not on melanotan it would be a great alternative.

If anyone is thinking of trying this to darken there hair I would be very interested to follow there progress and also try it myself if the solution is available to buy
By xtian - 7/13/2013 11:37:28 AM
The company is from Canada, that's where I got my package from
By DDye - 9/12/2014 2:28:35 PM
Welcome to the Forums, Dodge1980.

There isn't a given time in which hair turns grey. For some people it is rapid, particularly for those under the stress you report. Some people go grey in one area such as the temples long before the rest of their hair turns grey, or there is a streak of white like a skunk down the top of the head. Still others have a salt and pepper effect.

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 5/30/2014 2:49:32 PM
You are welcome, Ladd, but it's only because the moderator is at a computer during workdays. It won't be as fast over the weekend, or at night, unfortunately, and during the occasional time off.

D Dye
By DDye - 8/12/2013 5:17:23 PM
Click the portrait icon to add an image.
By gotsomegray - 1/4/2014 7:00:20 PM
Pseudocatalase - yet another question for you.  Is there a specific temperature range that the cream or shampoo should be stored?  Is there a preservation of the critical components with refrigeration versus room temperature?
By stefanovic - 5/30/2014 4:26:52 AM
I agree with you; EN8686. Maybe someone with more connections could try to get in touch with the researchers having discovered the pseudocatalase darkening grey hair. The results of the study were released in may 2013. It would be interesting to know what their opinion is on the PC sold over the internet and the lack of results. I'm sure they know the pathway but for some reasons it's yet to be determined when it will be released for the rest of the word. They would hate the fact that people are now claiming it doesn't work and they know it does, but just in a different way.
By stefanovic - 3/24/2014 1:30:11 AM
Around page 90-95 the melitane was hot, but is there a consensus on how to mix it? How to use it? How to avoid side effects? Is anyone trying it at the moment?
By StarGazer2 - 9/3/2013 6:51:52 PM
Here's something to consider for the Viaguard trialists.

There is evidence that using a dermaroller with minoxidil yields better results than minoxidil alone (for hair loss). 

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-121476-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

I wonder if those of you using Viaguard's product might get better penetration in the follicles by using a dermaroller? 


Google 'dermaroller' (or search 'derma-roller' at Amazon) if you're not sure what it is.


Just a thought, fellas.
By wisdom1st - 6/10/2014 1:29:20 PM
Stefonovic - I have not counted, but I think it was more like 5 or 6 people on this forum that said they had no results from Pseudocatlase's product, and there are two that said they have.  There is also at least one that is using it that has not responded yet, but believes it is way too early to draw a conclusion.  How many of the one's that did not respond had mixed the product themselves?  Would you not agree that it's possible that at least some of them used a poor carrier, or just simply screwed up on the mixing directions?  
By brm - 2/23/2013 3:26:57 PM
Hairy2012 (2/17/2013)
I went to that link and they said you have to use the spray once a week.  This is just a natural dye.  I have a shampoo that says it recolors gray, you just have to use it everytime you shampoo your hair.


Hi Hairy 2012.

1) Greyaway is not a natural dye. I asked them to email me the ingredients of their stuff and it contains bismuth citrate. But never mind.

2) Please, can you tell me what this shampoo of yours is?

Thnx.
By DanRo - 1/28/2014 1:41:43 PM
@Gaizz, I was able to translate most of the page but it doesn't say the name of the product, where it can be purchased, or how much it costs. Does it say it on there anywhere?
By stefanovic - 3/27/2014 2:04:15 AM
@Ladd: I have the exact same feeling after 9 weeks. Not having had much sun exposure. Don't know if that's the clue. I pulled lots of white hairs and none of them have dark roots.

In the mean time ( I hope I can get rid of it soon) I'm using hair dyes and part of me thinks: the inventor of hair dyes forgot one big thing: the fact that hair grows. Most of the time it's recommended to touch up your roots after 6-8 weeks. But how outrageous and sleezy do you look after that time? I must say: in less than a week I notice the roots and now it's been two weeks since I've dyed it and people see it.

Okay, let's stick to stuff like melitane and pseudocatalase, just wanted to say that "hair dyes" are often seen as a solution when you complain about hair color, but the root problem is even worse than a complete head in the same color.
By wisdom1st - 1/8/2014 5:42:22 AM
@pseudocatalase - I'm not seeing any conclusive evidence in the photos you posted, but I am aware that pictures can be deceiving.

I recall you mentioning a colleague that had quite a bit of re-pigmentation in his whiskers, and another whom had hair that was snow white. Would you have any before/after photos of these individuals? It may be easier for the many untrained eyes to see a difference if you do.
By wisdom1st - 6/5/2013 3:57:26 PM
gotsomegray - Good point about the reviews of other products that Viacom sells.  I ordered some of the product two days ago, and it came today.  What put me over the edge was the ingredients matched the earlier link that somebody put on this forum.  They also mentioned in their advertisement that the digestive system breaks down catalase making it ineffective when taken orally.  That is spot on with everything I have read, and appears to me that a topical solution would be the only thing possible at this time.  

Of course, I am still skeptical whether this product will actually work, but I figured it is worth a try.  I will begin the process tomorrow, and will post updates as we move forward. Again, 10 drops isn't much, but I will definitely designate at least one drop in the exact same place on a daily basis. I will watch that spot very closely.  Only time will tell.
By Romi - 8/24/2014 4:51:01 PM
I stopped my pseudocatalase experiment after seeing no results for long time, log time ago.  
I am still awaiting a better product.

I just noticed that on ebay, it seems the Einstein guy sold alot more pseudocatalase than the the Pseudocatalase guy (here and on ebay).
according to the ebay page, he sold about 1,500 , while the Pseudocatalase two pages only sold: 93

He also has alot more watchers
294 compared to 45 for Pseudocatalase guy

He also seems to so far retain a review of 100%

I know all this can be manipulated but I am still curious what you guys think and if any of you have tried it.
By Ladd - 6/2/2014 7:09:55 AM
@stefanovic
I'm defending Pseudocatalase because he made it abundantly clear this was speculative and to stop using it if it didn't work. If I were him I would just stop shipping it to Europe or start blocking individual buyers who can't handle it.

I want it to work just as bad you, but if it doesn't I'm not going to start bothering people with emails and accusing people of fraudulent behavior, nor will I let it eat away at me psychologically. Children throw fits and cry over spilled milk.

***

@romi

Fact 1: Agreed. UV is hamrful.

Fact 2: You cannot compare pre-mixed and mixed substances. What happens when an explosive is dropped into water and triggered? It bubbles to the top at a speed much slower than it would without resistance. The same thing is happening here.

It should also be noted that in Schallreuter's research PC-KUS was proven to remove H202 concentration in the skin within 5 minutes.

Fact 3: I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. I guess it's based off fact 2 which is incorrect as stated.

Fact 4, 5, 6:

What you're trying to do is paint Schallreuter as a money grubbing guru. This is a VERY weak straw-man argument.

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position." http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

Her point with the research you highlighted was PC-KUS is more effective than Dead Sea (a natural catalase) Therapy in isolation.

From my understanding the trips are two part. 1) It's a social support getaway for people suffering from vitiligo. The whole point is for people to help each other. 2) PC-KUS treatment IN COMBINATION with Dead Sea Therapy speeds up the process.

They appear to be a wild success. Participants leave glowing reviews about their experience.

Fact 7:

You're speaking for someone else. You have absolutely zero idea why this is the route she chose. Maybe she is happy consulting and researching?

There are also dozens of before and after photos from people who have used PC-KUS. The results are astonishing.

Regarding the math:

It's incorrect because you assume every test subject is equal. We have different genetics and we have different lifestyles (diets, stress, sleep, exercise, etc). Some of us are also using different mixes. I'm using lotion and stefanovic made his own shampoo. Can you account for these things?
By Englishbull - 11/10/2013 8:19:46 AM
Couldn't agree more StarGazer2
By brm - 5/16/2013 6:32:56 PM
The basic reflex is to turn to your local pharmacist. He should either be able to make the compound or ask his usual lab to do it.

The problem is the vehicle: EDTA is not regarded as completely benign, including by topical route. I just wonder why old alcohol (ethanol) and his team mate propylen glycol couldn't do the job.
By AussieDavid - 11/29/2013 11:01:55 AM
Pseudocatalase, can you recommend a light wand? I generally avoid direct sun exposure and when I am in the sun I wear a hat. I thought your shampoo could work without UV exposure?

What are your thoughts re the pics posted above showing the reaction of Depomelanin with Hydrogen Peroxide?
By Hairy2012 - 5/6/2013 4:25:30 PM
I read the article and it states that a cure has been fold but they don't know when it will be sold.  L'oreal said the same thing years ago.

Hair dye is a billion dollar business.  I doubt they will release the cure for gray hair.
By gotsomegray - 7/16/2013 12:40:35 PM
I'm glad to hear that they will at least honor their product if it goes bad.

Here's a re-post of a link someone posted a few pages back when Viaguard's product was first talked about on this board.  I know that you can never take testimonial comments as being 100% legit, but reading through these gives me some encouragement.

By stefanovic - 9/21/2014 1:09:45 AM
PC1 claims that they're selling pseudocatalase that is 5 times stronger
PC2 claims that we shouldn't believe a person claiming their product is 5 times as strong with results in a shorter period of time.
It starts to smell like competition, I just hope in the end people will just be helped.
By stefanovic - 1/17/2014 6:16:01 AM
I live in a country with no sunshine most of the time. Is it sufficient to spend some time outside?
By Jcoireangus - 8/26/2013 6:46:33 AM
I decided to do perform this test on the chin area of my facial hair. I did take pictures and continue to do so. I started about five weeks ago. 

I also decided to go ahead and try it around my temples because that hair was also white and shaved short. 

I chose both these areas because I believed they were entirely grey. The problem is that until I started this experiment, I had never closely examined either location. Also, my hair is growing out. I started the experiment the day I got a hair cut. 

So I think I see more dark hairs mixed in with the grey. 

But the reasons I have doubts are as follows:

1.  Hair length is different in photos. 
2.  Lighting differs with photos. 
3.  Photo quality is poor (using iPhone camera)
4.  Areas I thought were entirely white were not. I can see some pigmented hairs in early photos. 

When I compare early and late photos, the areas treated do seem to have more pigmented hairs but because of my doubts, I won't at this point say for sure the product is working. 



Señorgringo (8/26/2013)
Jcoireangus (8/26/2013)
If this stuff is going to work, it needs to be applied to the skin and change maybe slow. 

Each day, I become more certain that it is working for me but the results just aren't dramatic enough to be convincing. 


If I may ask - what makes you say that? Are you sure it's not wishful thinking? I'm in the trading business and I have learned over the years how people's desires and hopes can easily get the better of them. How long have you been using the product now and what increase in dark hair do you see in percentage terms? Did you take pictures before/after?

Look - I'm almost completely white on my sides - so it'll be easy to spot. You guys may spend too much mental energy hoping and trying to see something that isn't there. If you have old pictures of yourself then you ought to either see a difference or not. I encourage you to take pictures NOW and then keep them for future reference.
By Ladd - 5/30/2014 7:30:16 AM
@stefanovic

How exposed is your scalp? You could live in Morocco and it would not matter if your hair is longer than an inch or two (even shorter if your hair is thick or grows in flat).

Implying fraudulent behavior, in any capacity, without any evidence is downright ridiculous and dumb.

I did a couple searches to verify in the beginning and I can tell you everything is legit. I also have experience with photoshop and producing said photos would be incredibly hard. Manipulating hair isn't easy by any means, especially in context of those photos.

No one is to blame. We all knew of this since the beginning. "It might work, it might not". We know it works in some people. Why does it work for them? THAT is the question to ask.
By xtian - 5/22/2014 4:27:40 PM
I just sent an email to the company asking the % of Melitane in the product...
By stefanovic - 4/12/2014 8:59:59 AM
@Ladd: I have lots of hair and just wanted to make sure to check quite some hairs to see if I had responded. I'm just taking this experiment seriously. It has nothing to do with anxiety

@Troppo: way back in january you mentioned your sideburns had responded to the PC. You never mentioned starting melitane and now you're bashing both products.

@ all the others: let's not be negative. The melitane has published a paper ( in a very scientific magazine) with a before and after group. It's reputable research. As opposed to the pseudocatalase, we learned about the fact that a big group of people all responded to it. There was a control group with maidenhair. So at the moment I'd definitely think this research has the edge.

On the other hand: the PC theory is very strong too. But what I hate, is that even on this board there are claims like: it doesn't work for everyone. The internet is full of wonder products with a so called 90 percent success rate. If it works, then it should work for everyone because in the end most users will be part of that 10 percent group.

I have this gut feeling that leaving it on for 5 minutes is just not sufficient and on the other hand. The powder can be sold but what is the true penetrator for this product? I wouldnt let clients experiment. Many will only get dissappointed. It's not very expensive but it's also very time consuming.

The go away grey products also have those kinda claims. I've just finished three bottles with no results. I never expected to get results from it but I didn't wanna rule it out.

Apart from that: we are getting very close. We have good scientific papers and we're no longer wasting our time on myths ( and Bruno Bernard is one of the researchers I wouldnt trust, been in touch with him and he was arrogant)
By StarGazer2 - 6/23/2011 3:54:18 AM
ABC News video story on wnt.   This is a good story of how a product would work if they ever can develop it into a product:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/grey-hair-reversed-nyu-scientists-believe-cracked-code-age-reversal-original-color-health-13871716
By Ladd - 11/11/2013 4:51:29 PM
StarGazer2 (11/11/2013)
I trust Aussie David.  He (along with a few others of us here) go back to the original LEF board.    We've been here for 10 years.


Aussie David said on 11/1 he had only begun psuedocatalase shampoo"recently".

http://ask.lef.org/FindPost10775.aspx

StarGazer2 (11/11/2013)
Pseudocatalase  - you said here if it doesn't work after 8 weeks, you would recommend that the user stops (which at that time added to your credibility).   So are you now telling those like Aussie David not to re-order when they are saying it's not working for them?    Or are you now telling customers it will take a long time?

You were definitive before about the timeline for results.


Pseudocatalase can speak for himself, but when he first entered this forum he said: "Yes, we recommend people stop using our pseudocatalase product if they don't see results in 3-4 months."

http://ask.lef.org/FindPost10428.aspx

So, it would actually be 12-16 weeks, not 8. Again, the 8 weeks you bring up (in regard to Aussie David usage) is also blurry because as I quoted earlier he mentioned only starting pseudocatalase "recently" (post date 11/1/2013). That would make his usage less than 8 weeks and far from the 12-16 suggested.

StarGazer2 (11/11/2013)
And multiple people could be 2 users.


I guess this is suggesting I'm a duplicate user or something which is really unfounded and utterly ridiculous. I've had this page bookmarked for months without ever creating an account.

StarGazer2 (11/11/2013)
I said pseudocatalase might reverse grey hair but there is no product that has been proven to work.  

I also said there have been no independent peer-reviewed studies showing the effectiveness of pseudocatalase and grey hair (meaning scalp hair).   Many vitiligo sufferers have lost pigmentation of eye lashes.   Yes, it works for vitiligo.


You're absolutely right. There is no proof pseudocatalase works for gray hair. Are there different mechanisms involved in the graying process? Maybe so.

However, if you read the relevant research it doesn't take a gigantic leap of faith. H202 is the common denominator in both vitiligo and gray hair. Pseudocatalase removes H202. It may or may not work, but the theory is certainly not made of glass, and in my opinion worth investigating further.

StarGazer2 (11/11/2013)
This board has a long history of sellers who have come here and hawked their products.  Every one of them to date has been unable to come up with a product that works to the satisfaction of the users here.  

Newbie board posters aren't going to speak for the grizzled (pun intended) veterans.   If you don't like my skepticism, tough.  

I'll serve as the only watchdog if I have to.   This is the best grey hair forum because it's the toughest dogpound on claims. 


People are always going to try and make money off snake oil. I knew depo melanin (I never tried it) was a sham when I saw the same spam comments promoting it throughout blogs and youtube.

It's also an insult to my intelligence to suggest I can't possibly comprehend research and deduce my own viewpoint (derived from research and always short of claiming anything as factual) because I'm a "newbie". It took a newbie to point out really bad inaccuracies within a grizzly veterans skepticism (above).

I also want to point out: I have never claimed pseudocatalase will work. Why do you think I'm asking so many questions?
By BoB.org - 3/25/2014 9:45:46 AM
DanRo (3/24/2014)
There's all kinds of ways you can experiment with this. For those who use hair loss products like Rogaine that would be the perfect vehicle. Just put about 3mls of the melitane into a full bottle of minoxidil for a 1 to 20 ratio then spray it on the entire head at night and leave it. Do that 2 or 3 times a week. Or there's other vehicles like the pseudocatalase.

Since I only intend to use it on beard hairs I'm putting some in pre-made everyday cream and applying it that way. Fortunately it doesn't cost that much so one bottle should last 6 months or more.  
 


Danro very interested in hearing how you get on with using it on your facial hair. What is the natural color of your beard before starting?

I have a natural gingery / blonde beard which goes really dark when I am using MT2 would love to be able to find an alternative to keep it dark inbetween cycles of MT2.

Are you planning on using it to darken your beard or tackle grey hairs in that area? 

    BoB
By stefanovic - 8/13/2014 4:08:10 AM
Hey EN, tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full. Here's a link of the LLLT with the best strength and most positive reviews: http://www.overmachogrande.com/
By raveena - 5/3/2012 8:13:22 PM
StarGazer2 (2/10/2012)
Nice try, raveena. 

Your profile shows you've only had 2 visits to this forum (1 of which was to post your spam promotion).  Now, if you've been reading all the posts for so long as you claim, why do you only have 2 visits?

Hogwash.
Hello stargazer Please know that I am not selling anything just giving my honest opinion. I have been following this post for years (including old posts) reading with lot of interest that is being said and tried. Since I did not have lot of useful stuff to add I did not post. I apply henna and surya cream regularly and am waiting as anxiously as you are for grey hair cure as my kids who are in their twenties have grey hair and am not great fan of chemical dyes. If you have anymore questions about my authencity please meassage me and I will try to help your sceptacism.

I am a great fan of this forum and thought I will just share  with what method I am using to help my family. I honestly can't wait to for a cure as I totally hate greys specially for for my kids as they are so young.

Cheers

Raveena Pls note I will not be posting in a hurry unless I have something more substantial to add. But will be still reading and following this post.
By Pseudocatalase - 9/16/2013 11:05:30 AM
Sorry, I am new to the site and don't mean to be an intrusion.  I was curious if anyone had any familiarity with using pseudocatalase to treat gray hair.  I am a vitiligo patient that has started to compound the product for personal use on the skin.  However, a colleague of mine began using it for his gray hair and it appears to be working for that as well.  I have started offering it for others on ebay, because from my earlier experiences compounding pharmacies were charging me an arm and a leg.  However, I don't want to waste my time or others in compounding it if it is not a viable long term treatment.  Any insight from anyone that is familiar with the product for hair use would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks, I will provide the link below if anyone is interested in taking a look...



By Pseudocatalase - 12/29/2013 2:27:38 AM
@Romi, the pseudocatalase in the lotion is fresh mixed within a day of shipping. We have not noted any degradation in 3 months time, but it is important to control the ratio of lotion and H2O2 in the test. Please keep the lid tightly fastened when not in use. 
  
The ultimate carrier? Neribas cream was used by Schallreuter (not available USA). All our efforts were to find creams/lotions/shampoos that were not reactive to pseudocatalase. They are definitely in the minority. We still feel someone using the lotion will get a far better return buying the lotion than the powder and mixing their own lotion. More times than not people using the powder will not place it in an unreactive carrier, and store it in an airtight container. Failure to do so will void the pseudocatalase, and we want people to get active pseudocatalase. Anything less is bad for treatment, and bad for business. 
  
The "best" thing you can do is to set up to perform regular H2O2 disproportionation tests to make sure your product is working properly. Then you will know which vendors are being honest. The same is also true if you want to switch to powder and choose your own carrier. Test lots of carriers to make sure you find one that is unreactive. Congratulations on your eyelash - you are using virtually the same vitiligo treatment as one of us. It is progressive, if you get 100% in less than a year you will be in the minority. But, more than 50% repigmentation in 6 months happens fairly often. 

@wisdom1st, your experiences are not abnormal. If you don't like the results, please don't continue treatment. Schallreuter used to beg and plead people to continue treatments (for vitiligo), because results at 3-4 months were modest. However, they build cumulatively from there and reach 100% in most people with narrowband UV and continued pseudocatalase treatment for many more months. The ultimate long-term results for gray hair use are not as well described, as yet. But most people can notice the results, as you do, in 3-4 months and one bottle. 
By troppo - 10/14/2013 3:42:33 PM
Happy to have found this thread...at only 37 the 50% gray beard (gray hair doesn't bother me so much) is driving me nuts!  Lots of great info here...

I started using pseudocatalase in mid-July and no results yet BUT I just started using the UVB lamp a month ago...fingers crossed



So how many of you guys are using a UVB lamp in conjunction with your pseudocatalase?



Also, there just might be something to the massaging thing as derma rolling looks like it helps with vitiligo and melanocyte production.

By DDye - 5/28/2014 4:09:20 AM
Nomis99, due to inappropriate posts, Life Extension had to change the Forums to require every post to be approved. The posts are moderated for no more than 16 hours per day and are checked a few times on most weekends and holidays. Please accept our apology that it's not better than that.

Regarding the slowness of the website, your complaint will be forwarded to the director of web marketing.

EN8686, appreciate the pun in your last sentence!
By Zeno - 3/22/2014 11:06:03 AM

Please sign the petition on the following link:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lef-anti-gray-hair-product

Thanks for your support !
By MaylinR - 7/26/2013 10:01:53 AM

cylonjim- UV light therapy has been shown to help vitiligo. 

 

MaylinR

By Tom. - 10/15/2013 11:15:57 AM
Transpower (10/15/2013)

Tom:  You're still playing the "Yes, But" game with us (Eric Berne, Games People Play).


If that were true it would mean I'd have to partially agree with you, which more often than not I don't.  Interesting how you slip in 'with us'. You play Berne's theories well. You seem to get miffed when we question your protocols.  Checkmate!
By StarGazer2 - 10/4/2011 6:25:15 PM
Re: L'Oreal's proposed pill for grey hair...

Well it didn't take long before the U.S. academic dermatologists started slamming this grey hair pill.  Let me guess...they're getting kickbacks from the companies who make hair products to color hair.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44776450/ns/health-aging/

Gotta love those lame dermatology professors who sit in their ivory towers and don't do much with their lives but read and lecture.

By wisdom1st - 1/24/2014 1:10:57 PM
Thanks Pseudocatalase. It will be difficult to use each powder proportionately, but I hopefully will get close. I should be able to reduce the water level down, and again be close. I understand that a good carrier will not deactivate the product, but I would think reducing it down proportionately would be far more effective, ohterwise  the pseudocatalase will be too diluted into the carrier.

Stargazer - I've read the links you've sent.  I'll bet your neighbor's cat that they are either affiliated with Viagard/Depo Melanin, or they have copied quite a bit of their information. Did you notice that there is not a price on the add? The before/after pictures shown should be a dead giveaway that they are fudging the truth. Too much change in the time period they had to develop and test the product. For the record, I'd bet your neighbor's cat on anything.
By Ladd - 5/30/2014 10:14:07 AM
The UVB has to make contact with the skin to set off the pigment reaction. Hair can block it out. If a vitiligo patient applied PC and didn't get UVB nothing would change.

Look at the photos of "Santa Claus". He has thinning hair at the top. You can see his scalp. The questions I asked are important.

I think I'm the only one on here using it with a shaved head and I don't even have a normal summer tan yet.

The sun puts out UV and UVB. You get both outside. From my understanding a UVB wand is just more efficient and *safer(?).

*Personally I don't take issue with the sun. If it's done within reason (an hour here and there a few times a week) I think it's fine.
By Beefster - 8/3/2013 1:39:07 PM
I agree with Wisdom1st about the theory behind catalase. I feel this approach will work with most people. I know it works for me. My homemade formula works and the Depo works better. I don't think that they have all the answers and will come up with better products in the future. At this point Depo is the best thing going for gray hair. However, it is probably not the miracle product everyone would like to see

It takes a while to start and how I was fortunate to find the early results: 

I'm guessing that I saw my first results in about six to eight weeks with my homemade formula. I usually follow a rule of thumb that if something isn't working in three months it probably isn't going to work. I had put a lot of time into this and was pretty excited. I knew the science was there and hopefully I could prove it. 

I started scrutinizing my side burns and my temples like watching a pot of water boil. After some weeks I just put the stuff on and halfheartedly looked. One day I was getting ready to shave and noticed what I thought were a couple of specks of dirt on my left cheek. I hate to shave and shave every two or three days. My beard at that point had no hair with color. I tried to brush it off but soon discovered my first results. Bingo!  

Most people will give up too soon or possibly looking in the wrong area:

As it turns out, If I would have keep looking at my temples and side burns I would have missed the slow gradual start. My sideburns started graying some thirty years ago and creeping  up to the temples wasn't far behind. Although it took a while to eventually turn white the process had be going on for decades. I have since discovered another rule of thumb. The longer a hair has been white the longer it takes to reverse. My sideburns and slightly above have the least color to date. The upper temple area is harder to see and has a mix of color so any small change there would have been extremely hard to determine.

I was lucky that it happened in an area with no other color and an easy area to examine in the mirror. I more than likely had hair changing in other areas but didn't realize it at the time because it is so gradual that it gets lost in the mix. I've since determined that the beard at the cheek area is one of the best areas to be looking if it is kept very short or shaved every few days. The reasons are ease of examination (angle and light in a bathroom mirror), thicker hair than on the head, less dense hair and short hair. 

I learned a lot about how the hair gradually changes from this area. I eventually learned that if you can get the light right and get sort of a sideways view you can see some of the earliest changes, an extremely sight color variation from a hair that is still white even though the hair may look white from a straight on view. Another rule of thumb learned, no matter how small the change that hair is in line to eventually darken.

This takes us into what to look for and the bell curve:

Don't be looking for anything dramatic (like me freaking out over my kids hair LOL) those first couple of hair on my cheek weren't even close to their final color. They just stood out because I have no other color on my cheek. I also learned that a darkening hair when it first starts will also give an illusion of appearing slightly smaller in diameter too. The process is a very gradual darkening of the follicle over time. It's really hard to see in the beginning because it's so gradual and there are so few actually changing. I've discovered another rule of thumb in that the longer you work at it, the darker each hair, that is changing, becomes, and that increasingly more and more hair will start the changing process, like a bell curve. It's going to start slow, build to the peak than taper off as you slowly gain your hair color back. I'm still on the building to the peak side of the curve.

Some more tips:

1. The eyebrows are harder to see individual results for me but were an area that had some good results overall and may be a good spot for some.

2. If you have been white haired for a long time it may take an extremely long time to start the process let alone reverse. Although I'm starting to see a large number of hair that are just a the very beginning stages of turning in my sideburns and have had some change here and there in the side burn area, it's been a long time coming in that area

3. The chin area is harder to see individual results because of angle, light glare and denser hair coverage

4. A hair in the beard area seems to complete the coloring process faster than a hair on the head once the process starts.

5. Any hair on the head, not counting the sideburns, if the side burns are cut short, seems to get lost in the mix and is hard too see results. It's hard to see the tree for the thick forest.

6. Overall results are the same to determine anywhere but will take much longer to get appreciable results to see.

7 Another rule of thumb- five steps forward and about six inches back....is that you can take a short break after a while and pick up pretty much where you left off. I've always been surprised at how a break once in a while didn't really set me back. Just the results I might have gotten in that time period.

All the above are some things I gleaned using a homemade catalase product for a couple of years.

Wisdom1st has a good Idea to use the Depo product for six month and then decide. You should see some results in that time frame. Someone that has been white haired for a long time will probably need a longer.
By DanRo - 10/18/2011 9:45:56 AM
Unfortunately I can't find that link to the Texas health clinic. I read it about a month ago but didn't bookmark it. I'll keep looking and will also let everyone know if the Careprost treatment does anything.

Here's another pie in the sky breakthrough that we'll probably never hear from again:

http://www.baumanblog.com/follicleblog/2011/07/hair-treatment-breakthrough-may-prevent-premature-gray.html
By Jcoireangus - 9/5/2013 11:28:45 AM
Hey Kench, thanks for sharing. It's good to know someone who's been at it as long as you. Good luck. 

I too think the company is reputable and rushed a product to market with the idea of buyers testing it.   I've been at it for 42 days and I've used it every day at least once on my temples and chin. Both places are very grey. 

As of today, I've decided not to treat this as an experiment where I try to collect data that convinces others. I don't think that's possible.  If my hair reverts to its natural color, I'll have my reward. I had stopped dying my hair so I could get the best photos. No more. I've now got a full head of dark brown hair again, including the temples. I am leaving my chin natural though...

One interesting thing is that my temples usually don't take to the dye and remain mostly white. Not so today. Also, I've been a bit to obsessive about this experiment. I can't tell any more if my temples are becoming less grey. I'll have to wait until the hair grows out.  Anyway, six weeks from now I'll cut my hair again and leave my hair undyed long enough that I can see if there are any changes. 

Jim
By Señorgringo - 9/5/2013 1:06:56 AM
Jcoireangus (9/5/2013)
brm


Believe what you like. It makes little difference to me. If I find this forum to be an unwelcoming place, I'll just take my marbles and go play somewhere else. 

 


If you mental fortitude cannot withstand constructive criticism then that may be best. Forgive my bluntness but in the realms of science only results count and one's approach must be focused and methodical. Throwing the kitchen sink at the problem will lead us nowhere. We need to establish here whether or not Viaguard's products work or not. We have a product at hand that promises to reverse graying - should we not firmly establish whether or not it does the job before we start off-roading in all kinds of directions?
By Pseudocatalase - 6/10/2014 7:45:26 AM
Also, as an addendum, why has the response of those on this board been so poor?
  
Without seeing controlled photographs taken under the same lighting condition, with the same hair length, it is difficult to assess response. Our initial, and continued claim, is that most (but not all) people will notice some modest change in 3-4 months. Those who do not should not continue to purchase and try our product. However, to determine if there is a response may require a controlled scenario that few are following. 
  
Our best local responder, don't-call-me-santa, was white haired and white bearded when he began, and is now mixed gray/black/white haired with mostly white and some black hairs in the beard. It is a remarkable change, in a year, but it is not as though he changed that much in 3-4 months - much less like he grew dark hairs out by the roots.  
 
It is important we stay honest about expectations with people that use our products, because we know we can help some people, even if the product is not the miracle that some people hope it to be. But with continued use many people will turn the grey hair clock backwards in time. Of course they will probably grey anyway, but if you could push greying back 5 years, or 10 years, or 15 years, would you?   
  
One of us (not don't call me santa) is a more modest responder, with the grey hair clock pushed back 3-4 years. Use for us is continuing. And, of course, we hope to have new, better, products in the future that can accelerate the backwards greyhair clock that we hope for. 
By Truth and Beuty - 4/20/2014 4:42:41 PM
Your son did it ma, he is a success.

http://postimg.org/image/xc7eneljn/, this is left side.

http://postimg.org/image/b2eqle909/, this is right side.

Guys, i formulated something mixing many different things, continuously adding or removing extracts from the formula;, and trying for this, around 2 months, but since there was very little sun here, and last week i noticed, right side was obviously blacker then left side, then i gave a thought why it could be, and suddenly realized that, in my office my desk is located near window on the right side, and the sun receiving side had darkened compared to non receiving side. These two images are taken with one second difference, i just flipped the left side with software for better comparison. I guess this proves reversing can be done, and keep up the hope guys. we will not die, at least soon.
By DDye - 5/3/2013 9:08:35 AM
Sounds good. 

Wonder why people like Durk Pearson who consume massive amounts of antioxidants have completely white hair in their middle years.  Am guessing that orally consumed antioxidants don't get into the hair follicles.  And what causes more oxidative stress therein for some but not others? A genetic disposition?  Could excessive oiliness such as that caused by androgenic hormone stimulation result in increased lipid peroxidation? 
By stefanovic - 8/12/2014 4:56:53 AM
Great idea, EN. You have my support. Today it's exactly two months since I started using the melitane. Applied it on my head, lashes and eyebrows. So far the eyebrows are the only area responding, so at least it means it's doing something. Maybe the formula needs some adjustments. Today I measured the PH level of it with a stick and it must be around 6. So that's not bad. Anyone to help us out, say something. You could all be a great help.
By StarGazer2 - 4/15/2011 7:35:18 AM
Maybe we should also let L'oreal come here and advertising their coloring products?

This guy is pimping a hair dye product claiming it naturally reverses grey hair.  This is not my forum, but I thought we exposed this guy for what he is months ago.   Sorry for anyone who got burned.   You were warned though.
By Ladd - 11/11/2013 6:24:33 AM
Hi, Pseudocatalase. I have some questions.

First, a little about myself.

I'm 25 years old. I first started getting random white hairs (1-2) about 3 years ago. Currently, my hair is < 1-2% gray/white. However, it is progressing, albeit very slowly.

Graying under the age of 35 does have a negative psychological effect. It's not ruining my life, but it is a stressor, especially as a young single male. If I could stop the progression or at least slow it down by many multiples I would consider that a success.

Questions:

How common is the growth of "light hair" if one has dark hair naturally? (I haven't been blond since I was 6 years old).

What is the shampoo made of? Is it just a "raw shampoo" with nothing in it? I can't use regular shampoo. It drys the hell out of my scalp.

What do you think would happen if I use it 2-3 times a week? Remember, I'm only trying to stop or greatly stall the progression. In theory it should be enough to immediately halt any further build up of hydrogen peroxide and over the long term possibly lower the levels, right?
By EN8686 - 9/16/2014 2:21:28 PM
Has there ever been a study done where they take a bunch of people who turned grey early and those who haven't and compared their genetic makeup/DNA. Seems like that would be a good place to start. 

There's plenty of people who are overdressed who don't go grey. Something about their body that makes them
immune to it. 

I think the only at to get some real research done for this, at least on the level of balding, is to bring more attention to it. There's no reason that premature grey hair shouldn't be as
much attention as balding, vitiligo, etc.

There needs to be some real grass roots effort to bring more attention to it. We have this huge thread here and that's it. No other forums, websites, drug trials, etc. The word needs one spread. 
By DanRo - 2/27/2014 1:21:27 PM
@Ladd, the claim of melitane is that it reverses white and gray hairs back to their original color. This study used it in shampoo and got results to that effect, or so they say. Haven't seen any before and after pictures yet:

http://rps.mui.ac.ir/index.php/jrps/article/download/750/732

Melitane GL200 is cheap enough that it's worth trying this for yourself. You can do that by adding 1 or 2 mls of the concentrated peptide to your hair shampoo and wash once a day. 
By stefanovic - 4/16/2014 5:35:04 AM
Early february I had a blood test and my cortisol levels were rather high, one month later I had another test and it was back to normal. I haven been supplementing with ashwagandha and fo-ti ever since. My hair has also gone from pigmented to really white. Nothing like grey.
Could the melitane help increasing the action of PC? Something like helping with hydrogen peroxide and adding more pigment?
By Jcoireangus - 8/13/2013 3:30:18 PM
I'm not having any trouble applying the solution. I shake the bottle to mix then squirt some into my cupped palm. I dip two fingers into the solution and massage into my temples, side burns and facial hair. I just keep dipping my fingers, applying then adding more to the palm. 

Of course my hair is short so this works. If I'm able to prove to myself that this stuff works, I'll shave my head and apply. 


gotsomegray (8/13/2013)
Englishbull - I've been using a dropper to take the Depo out of the bottle and apply to my scalp.  Unless they've very recently improved the bottles, if you try to use the bottle like a dropper, the liquid will just pour out.  When I'm applying to the side of my head, I turn my head so I can lay a few drops on the side of my head and then I start rubbing it in before raising my head back up.  It's some runny stuff.
By DanRo - 2/9/2014 4:19:55 PM
dave (2/8/2014)
Where can you obtain Melitane or what products contain it?


What we need to try and get a hold of is Altris gel, that contains melitane and is made specifically for graying.

Others have mentioned penetration into the skin and I think that's a good point, the retail products on the market now that have melitane may not do that and would end up being a waste of money, that's why I'm looking to either purchase Altris gel or the peptide directly so we can make our own lotion. The gel is currently being prescribed in India and is new so it's not going to be easy to get just yet.

@troppo, good luck, please keep us up to date on your progess. Are you putting it on your head hair, facial, or both?
By StarGazer2 - 12/16/2013 7:50:38 PM
@pseudocatalase - thought you might be interested to know there has been some very recent activity on Clinuvel's patent application for cuv9900 (their latest top secret topical)

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130331331
By StarGazer2 - 8/3/2013 8:30:10 AM
Some of you may already know this, but if not, here's the president of Viaguard's phone number.  It was at the bottom of their press release.  Not sure if he's open to speaking directly to customers or not:

Inquiries:
Harvey Tenenbaum, President
Viaguard/Accu-Metrics
416-691-4167 x. 6
www.accu-metrics.com

Hmmm...might help if you posed as a member of the media. 
By Pseudocatalase - 12/31/2013 1:49:05 AM
@stefanovic, 3-4 months is a tricky target. For someone with mild vitiligo, that would be one order of lotion. For someone with bad vitiligo, it could be 10+.  For someone using shampoo, it would be 1 or 2 bottles (depending on use and amount of hair).  All ingredients in pseudocatalase are below the regulated levels for the US and any EU country, so there is no problem carrying it with you. 
  
@gotsomegrey, the concept behind the UVB narrowband lamp is that it causes cellular responses that activate the MC1 receptors. The MC1 receptor is the MelanoCortin 1 receptor that is one way to tell the skin to amplify pigmentation processes. SAD lamps work, instead, to present blue light to your retina to reset your Circadian rhythm. They are really useful and cool for that purpose, but they have no role in pigmentation. An easy alternate, depending on availability, is regular sunlight exposure.  
  
The narrowband UVB lamp, however, targets the MC1 receptor response while presenting 20-100 times less overall UV to your skin as you would need to get to receive the same MC1 receptor response from sunlight. For this reason doctors feel safe in prescribing them to patients with vitiligo, and they truly work. Your skin is safer using the narrowband UVB lamp than using the sun.

There are a number of people working on MC1 topical pharmaceuticals, but none are really available yet. There are some bodybuilders using it off-label as an injectable (causes an overall body natural tan). We believe that this type of pharmaceutical will be a huge future direction in treatment of gray hair and vitiligo, but it is not as mature a technology as pseudocatalase yet. 
By Romi - 11/12/2013 5:01:56 PM
Dear Pseudocatalase,

I recieved your cream today in the mail and I just tried the H2O2 test, and there was no single bubble ... so what do you say about that. 

I also just re-tested the Vitiligo 142  (by Viaguard) and there were plenty of bubbles ... in other words my hydrogen peroxide is good and your cream should have created  bubbles. 

Why I dont like about  Vitiligo 142  (by Viaguard) is that contain the natural catalase that helps it pass the test but is useless as a topical.

Also, where is the list of ingredients .. to my knowledge, it is illegal in the US to sell such products without listing the complete list of ingredients. 

Also, where is the expiration date on the bottle ?


By stefanovic - 4/22/2014 11:10:05 AM
Thanks a lot.

I don't have any experiences with neribas. I currently use the PC with dermolin shampoo. I wonder if the neribas-melitane combo is practical to use ( right before going to bed for instance)

PS: on the internet you'll really find many reports of people having used LLLT for hair loss and they all reported a great reduction in greys as it increases catalase. It is kinda expensive though but interesting.
By Sunshine - 3/9/2011 2:36:36 PM
Thank you, I'll give them a try.
By Romi - 9/22/2014 4:22:42 PM
And how did you measure it is five times more active.
Can you elaborate on your quantification method ?
By TRYTOKEEPUP - 5/16/2014 1:50:49 PM
While at a cancer clinic which used a modified Gerson Therapy, I met a man of 84 years. After introducing ourselves, he mentioned that he once had hair as white as mine.  His was salt and pepper, mostly pepper.  He said that by goggling "vodka and cayenne" I could find the information about how he changed his hair color. Essentially, one soaks cayenne in vodka for 30 days, and then applies the liquid overnight until the hair color changes.  He smiled as he mentioned that some had noticed that he was dying his hair, and when it was brought up, he simply replied "If you bothered to notice, my hair is coming in dark at the roots".  Alas, he did mention that the "cure" is not permanent, but slowly goes away if you stop the vodka application.  For what it is worth.  It appears that old hair follicles are not necessarily dead, nor unable to re-exhibit one's original color.
By xtian - 9/26/2014 8:53:50 AM
wisdom1st (9/21/2014)
@slider - I seen those pics of the other ebay PC seller.  I think the hair is wet in the 2 month photo, or maybe there is hair gel.  It looks like the hair is clumped together, rather than each hair flowing free.  If it is wet, it will certainly appear darker.  It is amazing that the seller has 100% feedback. 

That leads me to vitiligo.  Why are there no updated vitiligo pics on Einstein's or forum member PC?  Those pictures are close to a year old.  Although there was repigmentation, it was not completely restored.  Since it was working so well, I would think these users continued.  I would like to see updated pics of the vitiligo victims.  At the rate the color was being restored, there may be complete pigmentation by now.




I disagree with this observation, it is obvious that the difference between the two pictures is in hair length, the second being with shorter hair. If the outcome of the treatment is to have hairs becoming darker from the roots, that might well explain the dramatic change in just 2 months period
By DDye - 3/12/2014 12:34:32 PM
vlc, this is just part of it.  This same thread was active for years in the old Life Extension Forums and was the only one that was continued on the new forums.

D Dye
Moderator
By stefanovic - 2/27/2014 8:03:45 AM
@wisdom: I have to disagree on what you write regarding melanotan. When a redhead ( and blondes) takes melanotan, it makes the new growth of head hair, pubic hair, axiliry hair, beard hair,...grow in very dark ( like dark brown). I have lots of experience with melanotan and know about many users having experienced the same.
I also noticed that when you lower the dosage, your head hair keeps growing in dark but the pubic hair goes lighter again. Maybe eyebrows and eyelashes need higher dosage of it but I havent tried it and maintaining it with high dosages is not cheap and a topical solution would be a better option. But what I wanted to say, is that it's promoted for tanning and the effect of hair isnt discussed. It didn't darken grey hair for me.

I just thought it was important to mention this and as both melitane and melanotan increase MSH. So it's "probably" dose depending.

But 100 percent of the population eventually go grey and only 1 percent have lashes and eyebrows like me, so I know it's not something that catches people's attention as much as going grey.
By stefanovic - 2/5/2014 4:47:03 AM
PS: my adrenal glands produce too much cortisol. Just FYI
By StarGazer2 - 9/4/2013 11:49:13 AM
@Jcoire - You would LOSE that bet you're proposing.

The medical consultant behind Medical Wellness Center IS a real MD.   How do I know?  Because I have gotten prescriptions from her.  MWC has been around for at least 10 years. 

She called in prescriptions to pharmacies for me in my city that were always honored without any problem. 

I can't vouch for that grey hair compound she is offering prescriptions for on her site, but I can assure you she is a medical doctor. 

And I have heard of that compounding source before. 

However, I would agree that selling a pseudo catalase product by prescription-only is suspect.  Buyers should be aware of that.  Again, I can't vouch for that particular product she's offering.
By Ladd - 8/12/2014 5:44:00 PM
Unfortunately science operates relatively slowly (years) when compared to our daily lives. It takes time to develop a hypothesis, get funding, test it, and then publish the results.

The fact that we see gray hair related research at all is a good sign. Chances are there is more of it going on (publicly and privately).

At least we have a SHOT at something working or being discovered. It's infinitely better than anyone before us.

Nucyte is still fresh out of the oven as well. We need more results/data from users.
By Ladd - 1/7/2014 10:45:30 AM
@Pseudocatalase

Thanks for your continued transparency.

http://www.blakestah.com/pseudocatalase/before_after_pseudocatalase.jpg

What happened to the blonde in the original photo? Did it darken?

Personally, I can see a slight difference in color (5%-15%) with the newest photo. If one starts at the top back of the head and moves their eyes diagonally downward there is definitely a darker hue.

-
Also, I speculated on this before and it shouldn't be overlooked: 

The slow progress may not be a product issue (pseudocatalase), but actually an application issue.

Shampoo, like all soaps, was never intended to be used for a purpose like this (absorbing a solution into the skin). Soaps are designed to dilute and cover surface area in order to clean. Exactly what you don't want with something like pseudocatalase.

It's like taking a dime sized amount of lotion and the applying it in the shower. Yes, the lotion will cover your entire arm, but with what efficiency? Water would dilute the lotion and as a result the lotion would lose a significant amount of effectiveness. Not to mention water also creates a natural barrier to the skin.

Consider this: What happens when you mix paint with water? What happens when you try to paint a wet wall? What happens when you do both at the same time?

The efficiency loss when comparing shampoo and lotion could be colossal difference maker.
By stefanovic - 2/7/2014 2:15:13 AM
It's good that melitame ( can't wait to try it) and other alternatives get more attention. Looks like we're all seeing things from a more scientific view compared to some time ago.
By stefanovic - 1/9/2014 1:30:39 AM
@troppo: you think the fo-ti is responsible. When did you start using it? I'd have a problem using many supps not knowing what exactly worked. Imagine you start using pseudocatalase in conjunction with many other supps, in the end you will never know what exactly makes the difference.
When I read this kinda post, I think: maybe I should add fo-ti as well but on the other hand I want to know what to pseudocatalase does for me and not starting to guess: maybe it's this, or that? and losing so much money on supplements that won't contribute to it.
By DDye - 5/1/2012 9:57:46 AM
Welcome to the Forums, Miguel-inho.

D Dye
Moderator
By stefanovic - 2/24/2014 7:54:50 AM
@Ladd: how much does a haircut cost? How much does coloring cost? Those saloons makes tons of money for coloring. They won't be selling any "cure" for hair color. I understand your concern but on the other hand something like melanotan has been sold for many years. Apart from a couple of bad claims ( that was most likely caused by something else or overdosing) no real long time ( let's say 10 years) side effects have been reported. It's just a huge step for someone to take the plunge and saloons will always come up with claims like: sunbeds are much healthier but in the end it's up to you.

There are two groups of people here: progressive people looking for a relatively safe solution ( and melitame has been proven to increase MSH so the rest is about penetration, absorption)  and people willing to wait a long time without experimenting and doing research themselves.
I hope the first group will prevail on this forum. Without them we'd get nowhere.
By wisdom1st - 3/10/2014 7:26:54 PM
En8686 - thanks for posting the link. Wow. I can see a difference even over the last month alone. Definitely some pepper in that mop.

@pseudocatalase - What is Christmas' daily regime when using the product? Once/day? Twice? Narrowband? Sun? Appreciate any feedback.
By canuck84 - 10/29/2013 11:29:15 AM
Thank you so much for the update Jcoireangus !! Looking forward to your next update!!
By troppo - 1/9/2014 1:54:37 PM
@stefanovic - Yes, I am also seeing these positive signs where pseudocatalase is being used (and UV treatment)





I wanted to share some other findings.  A friend of mine started testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) 6 months ago and his beard has gone from partial white to all black, and even darker than before.  I have also been doing other research online that suggests a potential inverse correlation between testosterone levels and the incidence of gray hair.  I have found discussions saying DHEA has reversed gray hair (it raises T levels) and other people commenting on TRT.

Does anyone have any input into this theory?  Is anyone on TRT that is following this thread and noticed any changes with the amount of gray hair or potential reversal?
By Englishbull - 8/13/2013 8:22:22 AM
Just received my depo today. I'm just after some tips on how to apply it best? And how much is classed as a drop? As it says on the label.  

Also my bottles are the ones with the blue labels.

Any help greatly appreciated
By DDye - 2/24/2014 5:51:52 AM
Your request was received by Product Development who will consider it, but there is no plan to develop the product at this time.
By stefanovic - 9/15/2014 8:07:29 PM
Morgan's pomade is a dye. Most pics were taken before the melitane was introduced, so on that one we have to wait a few more months, but a healthy lifestyle, anti-stress tips,....are very important as well. The most important thing is to not introduce too many therapies at the same time for yourself because in the end you won't know what really worked.
By stefanovic - 4/18/2014 1:45:41 PM
Of course, but just because I have already purchased PC, I have to wait a bit to order the next thing.
Some people use 20 potential products and even if it works, in the end they won't know what did the job, so they'll keep using all those 20 products out of fear that the product they'd eliminate is the actual active one. I'm confident we'll get there soon but paying the bills is still a priority.
By wisdom1st - 10/15/2013 3:11:43 PM
Has anyone bought Pseudocatalase's shampoo or cream?  If so, have you done the hydrogen peroxide test?  Anything to report?
By Romi - 12/13/2013 9:34:40 AM
@Jcoireangus

what is the exact product you have been using ?
did you expose to UV light on regular or semi regular basis ?
By Ladd - 10/1/2014 3:56:37 PM
@slider

Thanks for contributing.  With that said, I'm confident it is a scam. First, they make YOU pay $999 for the trial. Second, dietary supplements are not going to revive stem cells.
By EN8686 - 4/29/2014 4:03:34 PM
SO I've decided that I want to explore possible medical issues/nutritional deficiencies in regards to the grey hair. I actually noticed the first two grey hairs on my right temple around last June or so and those were the only two I had. Since January, however, after a very stressful 6 months or so, they started spreading pretty rapidly throughout my head. Still between 3-5%, barely noticeable, but spreading. There has to be a reason as to why the grey started very slowly and then picked up the pace considerably.

I'd like to explore possible endocrine issues (thyroid, adrenal fatigue) as I have other symptoms that could indicate those issues and general vitamin/mineral deficiencies.

Any idea of what kind of doctor to go to? Nutritionalist, endocrinologist?
By EN8686 - 4/15/2014 4:11:26 PM
Great post, Ladd.

I just wish there was a way to speed up this research. I boggles my mind that there are so many acne products on the market, for example, with constant research behind them and nothing for grey hair. The fact is that premature greying is just as bad, if not worse, than acne.

There needs to be pressure for more of this research to take place and it needs to start at a grass roots level. The financial benefit for investors would be astronomical.

I don't get why LEF, for example, wouldn't jump on this.
By DDye - 8/24/2013 5:48:57 AM
Welcome to the Forums, Michael!

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 8/22/2013 4:19:38 AM
To Jcoireangus,

One of Life Extension's staff checked the reply pane on an ipad and the image icon appears for him.  It is also appearing for me as i type.  Am sorry that you don't see it, and the only thing that can be suggested would be if you have a web page, it would be permissible to direct people there at this point.

D Dye
By Maxicakes - 1/24/2011 7:06:33 AM
What is the recommended dose of fo-ti?
By stefanovic - 4/17/2014 2:58:31 AM
PS: I think melitane will be the next thing I'll add to my regimen. The reviews of Piz Buin containing melitane are generally very good. The question is: tanning lotions are probably not the best option for hair when it comes to penetration. The best option would still be mixing 30 ml of the pure product with something like minoxidil.

Maybe a next step would be a UVB wand, although I need some further info on it first. It's a big cost for someone like me and I also want it to be a bit time consuming. Isnt there anything like a UVB Helmet?


Has anyone heard of LLLT ( low level laser therapy). You can find some online claims that it increases catalase activity and darkens hair.
By brm - 10/10/2012 4:16:38 PM
I'd like to hear about this "success story" with Ho shou wouh. I took this stuff for 3 years with not a single repigmented strand in the end. BTW, I took the real Mc Coy, ground from the plant root.
By DDye - 2/6/2014 9:39:14 AM
Welcome to the Forums, BoB.

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 1/13/2013 12:28:49 PM
Thanks for reminding us of this.  Our members reported it when the study came out http://ask.lef.org/224/RE-How-to-reverse-grey-hair?PageIndex=13&Keywords=wnt%20signaling#bm3805
By DanRo - 2/28/2014 7:04:01 AM
@Ladd, I've got access to full text studies but could not find anything on the Iranian one, only the abstract. I was anxious to see if before and after pictures were included since visible results would lend more credibility to their claims.
By DanRo - 7/28/2012 10:32:28 AM
A few years ago I posted about tb4 and people are still claiming it darkens their hair substantially but it needs to be injected, the topicals don't work so well:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/peptides-growth-factors/79097-thymosin-beta-4-peptide-log-4.html
By stefanovic - 4/15/2014 4:17:02 AM
Let's just not send out negative vibes on this forum. Troppo, you mention a pigmentation disorder, so that could be a reason it doesn't work for you. Also the melitane should be the pure form and not the very small amounts used in tanners of other products. Lots of commercial companies benefit from it.
By Miguel-inho - 8/26/2012 9:54:28 AM
Hi,

I've just started (24th August) a program with those "traditional" products with lots of internet testimonies of grey hair reversing.  

I don't believe too much in their power for enhancing catalase activity under my scalp. However, I don't have anything to lose (except a few Euros) in trying.

Every day I'll have:

- 2 tablespoons of Blackstrap molasses.
- 2 pills of wild fo ti root (320 mg)
- 2 tablespoons of rice bran 
- 170 ml of Kombucha.

I have taken several pictures of my grey hair in order to check any progression during the next months.

Anyway, I will let you now any result (or alternatively, its absence) of my venture into the "superstition" area.
By wisdom1st - 12/16/2013 1:29:12 PM
@Troppo - You mention dermarolling. I know this is some sort of device, and it is commonly used by balding people looking for relief.

You mention that it would aid in applying pseudo-catalase, and you've gained my interest. I have had a little success with pseudo-catalase. As I mentioned before, I've seen pigmentation at the roots of some hair follicles. There are a few more that I've noticed since I originally posted.  Easy for me to tell because they stick out like a sore thumb (all gray in these areas).

Where I've noticed this pigmentation is at the hairline above the forehead. I've been applying once per day, and am not getting much UV rays. I've also seen a few in other sporadic places, but the hairline seems to have the most in one area. Been applying to facial hair as well, but cannot see any changes. If some of these facial follicles pigmented in proportion to the hairline above my forehead, there would be no way of telling, for I have way too many dark hairs there already.

I think the product is more effective on the hairline because it is getting a direct application. The product is getting absorbed by my hair before it makes it to the scalp in other parts. That is what brings me back to a dermaroller.  How does it work? Would it help me get the product right to my scalp without being absorbed into the hair?  What is an appoximate cost of a dermaroller? I have no intention of shaving my head. 

I remember somebody asked if a topical product would be more effective on a shaved head. I would think it would be most effective on hair that is about 1/4" long.  The follicle itself would not absorb all the product. 






By wisdom1st - 10/18/2013 9:48:39 AM
Troppo - Thanks for posting your results on the hydrogen-peroxide test. 

@psedocatalase - would it be possible for you to change your forum name (not drastically), say by adding a capital letter, then a dash, and then the word pseudocatalase? Considering pseudocatalase is the compound that is alledgedly going to make us all young again, plus the fact that there is a web site (pseudocatalase.com), whom as far as we know has not joined this forum, confusion may be lurking.
By Wally123 - 7/5/2013 1:55:06 AM
I have been using it approx 3 weeks now.
No major changes yet.
Same as others the normal hair may have gone darker but nothing to Gray hairs.

I have however plucked a few random hairs out and occasionally found some which have 2 colours. Bottom half closet to the follicle is black ( half an inch) and rest of hair strand gray. This might be as a result of Depo Melanin or just a coincidence.

Good news there is now a hand full of users here. So if it works like science suggests then we will know soon.

P.S
There are labs currently working on using PC-Kus variants for gray hair prevention. I have been emailed this confirmation from a lead scientist who told me it is theoretically possible to use PC-Kus for this. Whether it works is yet to be determined.
By john46 - 3/22/2013 4:11:13 PM
StarGazer2

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. Perhaps my foolishness is brought on by a young age. BigGrin

But I've developed a hobby of reading journal articles now.

http://www.jbc.org/content/284/28/18699.full

Seems to suggest a couple things more, not only were forskolin and alpha MSH (Melonocyte Stimulating Hormone) used, but discussed two additional things.

1. forskolin is not well absorbed due to a p-glucoprotein effect in the gut, which "may" be compensated for by taking with milk thistle according to some people [examine.com]

2. in Caucasians the melanin production site is a lot more acidic than in other peoples and that seems to reduce the production of melanin

the AMPK thing reminded me of the Berberine study comparing it to Metformin and some saying it was better tolerated than Metformin and might make a good diabetes medication - Goldenseal has been used for centuries (small wonder)

the mention of MSH reminded me of the dental studies regenerating dentine and enamel in mice
By DDye - 4/13/2014 4:10:38 PM
Ladd,

The reason it took so long last week was due to my vacation during which no one approved pending posts. Please accept our apology for this. The reason why the Forums now requires approval of every post, no matter how many have been submitted, was due to some posts from approved members going live that were inappropriate.

D Dye
Moderator
By Pseudocatalase - 3/12/2014 9:53:56 AM
Hi @stefanovic. Finding hairs with changes in color is HARD. The color changes slowly from root to shaft - not abruptly like someone who dies their hair and then stops. Our friend "Santa" noticed a significant change in 3 months (it is in the picture), but it is definitely more prominent in each month thereafter. 

Hi @wisdom1st, "Santa" does not get any artificial UV, nor is he in the sun much. It is winter here. He is just a lucky guy who happens to be a great responder. I wish you all would see the same rate of change he does. Even so, he is on the order of halfway converted back in something like 8-9 months. It is a slow process. 

As I've tried to point out repeatedly, we have good reason to think there are multiple contributing factors to loss of hair color. Pseudocatalase treatment will work really well on one of them. If that is your problem, it can reverse your hair color change, substantially. But you need to give it some time, and realize from the start it won't work on everyone. 
By Pseudocatalase - 1/30/2014 6:46:55 AM
Hi @troppo, we get asked these questions a lot! If hairs are long enough and the pigment replenishment is aggressive enough, it is fairly easy to see white at the hair tip, and progressive increases in pigment down the shaft towards the follicle. However, if the pigment replenishment is slower, such a search may be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Changes in that case can only be evaluated every few months. When pigment is lost, it usually operates the same, only in reverse. The tip is fully pigmented, and the pigment is progressively lost as the hair grows out. When a hair follicle reaches the end of its cycle, it stops producing pigment. Accordingly, the base of any hair that falls out naturally as the hair cycle ends is white. 

Here is an aggressive case. Photos that you may see on the internet associated with other products that are more aggressive than this are not something we've seen with pseudocatalase (or any other) treatment. 
http://www.blakestah.com/pseudocatalase/dontcallmesanta.jpg

Like any rule, there are exceptions. When you undergo something really stressful, like chemo, you can lose all pigment nearly immediately and see a fairly change from pigmented to white. But the opposite, a fairly sharp replenishment of pigment (from white to pigmented), is not something we know how to cause. 
By Ladd - 12/2/2013 6:58:15 AM
@Pseudocatalase


What is the difference in power between lamps and output of the natural sun, specifically the winter sun where the normal UV index is only 1-3. http://www2.epa.gov/sunwise/uv-index . For example 10 minutes of UVB therapy is equal to _ minutes spent outside with a UV index of _ ?


I hope I'm not too annoying with my questions and what not. It's an interesting subject.

The cortisol levels is a cool tidbit because none of the gray hair literature/studies I've read mention it (maybe it's just assumed). Hyperpigmentation (elevated melanin) is caused by low cortisol levels. It makes sense that too much cortisol would have an opposite effect in hair.

I would guess the next step in "curing" gray hair would be to figure out how to protect the melanocyte stem cells from H202, cortisol, and other side effects of aging (L'oreal didn't know the "why", but is sort of on the right path). If researchers are looking into this, with the amount of money at stake and the recent breakthroughs, I would be surprised if something isn't out by 2020. It seems like an easier problem to solve than hair loss.
By Pseudocatalase - 1/14/2014 9:27:15 AM
Baby shampoo definitely will not work. If you need to reverse engineer the carrier, here is my suggestion. Get a bunch of different shampoos. Mix up the batch of pseudocatalase. Test one drop of each shampoo with one drop of pseudocatalase. The shampoo should NOT react with the pseudocatalase in 30 minutes (or even longer). Once you think you have a winner, add a drop of H2O2. Do not waste a batch of pseudocatalase by assuming something will work and mixing the whole batch. Test it first with a drop. Then make a small batch, place it in a sealed container, and wait overnight and test again. If it works in the morning, you should be good to mix the entire batch with that carrier. And, again, store in an airtight container. Moisture from the air will, very slowly, lead to degradation. (The moisture goes into solution, forms H2O2 at 0.1-1 mM concentrations, which then reacts with the pseudocatalase.) In choosing potential shampoos, the fancier the ingredient list, the more likely that one of the ingredients will react. 

Pseudocatalase will react with most shampoos and creams (which is why we offer it in a stable carrier - although US only). This problem will plague people using the powder as it plagued the researchers studying vitiligo. Multiple third parties tested Schallreuter's formula in their own carrier, and published negative results, only to have it turn out that their pseudocatalase was inactivated by their carrier. 

This history is why we recommend people perform their own tests of activity to ensure they are using an active product. It is cheap and relatively easy to do at home. Just place one drop of the pseudocatalase product on a clean, dry, surface. Cover one half of that drop with a drop of hydrogen peroxide. Wait 10 minutes, and look for the bubbles. We highly recommend people test our product next to other pseudocatalase products because we use a more active formulation (4-5 times more bubbles!)

Hope this helps!
By troppo - 4/9/2014 6:53:46 PM
Long-term update

I started using pseudocatalase on 7/11/13.  I have applied religiously at least 2x a day since then and even used a UV lamp since 9/1/13.   I also started using melitane around 1/15/14 and that doesn't appear to have helped either.  Very discouraged after applying both religiously but the net result is my hair/beard has gotten significantly worse.   Body hair has darker hairs but my beard and head are probably 25% more white than before.

Quite sad to have a 50% white beard and hair at age 38.  Guess its back to hair dye and shaving daily Sad

It is too bad because I would have spent very large amounts of money to rectify this problem but there just isn't anything available.

I will still follow in hope reversal is one day possible but unfortunately I might just be a few years ahead of it...

Good luck to all and feel free to PM for any specific details of my advanced protocol.  Hopefully, it pseudocatalase works for others...
By Beefster - 7/25/2013 3:42:39 AM
Cylonjim,

I really don't know if DMSO makes a difference. According to the the directions on the bottle you shouldn't need it. 
By DDye - 2/18/2013 12:46:24 PM
http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/2/557.abstract

This abstract about hair loss, not gray hair, but if bimatoprost darkens eyelash hair and also makes eyelashes grow, it might impact scalp hair color if it makes hair grow.
By LouD - 5/21/2012 3:22:14 AM
Jen (5/20/2012)

Just found this.  Note that he mentions keeping the head lower than the heart for restoring hair color.  My own experience has borne this out, as a longtime practitioner of the yoga headstand.  My hair is still mostly brown at 60+.  I plan to try copper salicylate as well.

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.htmlRestoringHair




Your link got screwed up, so I've reproduced it here:

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/copper.html

It's interesting. Think I'll try it.
By stefanovic - 8/14/2014 12:11:10 AM
I don't know about LLLT: don't underestimate the billion dollar industry of hair dyes. I contacted  about ten different people on different forums having used the LLLT. It did something for hair loss, but it wasn't a miracle cure but they all saw the grey reversal as a more significant side effect. You must know: most people using it had hair loss, most of them didn't care so much about greying and just noted it as a side effect.
Melitane seems to do something for tanning, just like forskolin, melanotan,....but all your doctor will say is: use sunless tanners if you want to have a tan. Just to say that stuff can work even if doctors in general don't know about it.
By stefanovic - 6/1/2014 7:34:31 AM
@Ladd: you keep defending PC without evidence either. If 5 people with different backgrounds have no results it all, it's time to question things or do we have to collect about 1000 people and hope that maybe 1 person thinks he's seen one hair darkening. Where are those people?
Most people going grey darken their hair and move on. We're definitely a more sensitive group of people trying to find other kinda solutions. Some even mentioned they'd spend big money on a solution.
If something doesn't show results after a decent period of time, then tell us something else than we're just a group of people whining like babies.
By stefanovic - 2/22/2014 3:33:14 PM
(4) Alpha MSH increased the proportion of dark to light colored hairs, and this effect was greatest in the black animals.

This means it should also darken light ( non greying) hair so it could help darkening very pale eyelashes too. Could be a good thing for me and some others as well.
By stefanovic - 2/19/2014 2:38:36 AM
Just wanted to know. I started with the pseudocatalase shampoo in January, did it for three weeks and then I ran out of product ( I had ordered in the mean time but nothing has arrived yet). Today is my 4th day I'm not able to use it and I don't know when exactly it will arrive. Will a 1 week break mean that I have to start all over or the results will come in slower?

In the mean time I'm still taking the supps to decrease cortisol ( ashwagandha and fo ti)

I'm also looking out to see what melitame does. As it works to increase MSH it should also darken light ( non greying hair) My lashes are very pale naturally.
By StarGazer2 - 11/12/2013 6:21:07 AM
@ Ladd - I never implied you created 2 accounts.  


Amazing how some people can think that even when their name isn't mentioned, they are referring to them.  Hate to break the news to you, but you're not a focal point in my posts here.

"multiple users could be 2 people"   - I was referring to a comment made by pseduocatalase that you obviously didn't understand.

@ pseudocatalase - I stand corrected on the '8 weeks for results' I mentioned.   Sorry.

@ slider - Right on!
By brm - 9/11/2013 3:38:13 PM
Senorgringo

Accumetrics (=Viaguard) boasts a $12 fee for shipment outside North America. That would be a total of $39 for one bottle. Is this the deal that got your parcel snubbed at the spanish custom office? amazon US ask for $95 (=71 euros) and Amazon UK 106.5 euros. So, which would be the safest/cheapest (and it's not Spain for me but France)

(The right answer might be: don't let me waste my money)
By StarGazer2 - 9/17/2013 1:45:49 PM
You gotta love it.  Dr. Karin created a monster...these pseudocatalase vendors are coming out of the wordwork now. 

Why do I get a sense of deja vu all over again?  Could it be I lived a previous life in the 1880s Wild West with the snake oil push cart vendors and got burned by their tonics?  "Step right up, folks, step right up..."

Dayna - you look great!  As for the "men look more distinguised with grey hair" bit, I think that's way overblown.  

I've noticed that once my grey hair started to spread, the looks I got from women started to drop off precipitously.  Seemed to be a direct correlation. 

Dye jobs on men look fake as hell, so I'm not opting for that.  To me, that looks worse than just being naturally grey. 

On a brighter note, this forum is buzzing again like the old lef grey hair forum was before it was taken down.  Recently we had a long period with very few posts.   This is by far the best grey hair forum on the Internet. 
By jomic - 7/27/2012 8:20:03 AM
Here's my suggestion, from someone who turned prematurely grey at 22... don't worry about trying to reverse your grey hair. Instead, work with it. If the grey bothers you or you feel it makes you look older, use a tint to alter the grey somewhat. If your hair is dark mixed with grey you can create a sunbleached look or if you are totally grey like me, bordering on white, use a gentle tint to create a platinum look. There's so much you can do these days to alter the look of grey hair. Paba (para-Aminobenzoic acid) used to be the cure-all for greying hair except it never worked for me and to be honest, I'm glad it didn't because I've enjoyed being a blond, even at the age of 68 I still enjoy being a platinum blond. BTW, platinum blond is a very popular look these days!
By Tonifromafar - 9/14/2013 6:02:05 AM
wisdom1st (9/14/2013)
Tonifromafar posts on this site for the first time, and has a link to an Ebay web site that may be the most interesting read on the subject of pseudo catalase since the time the news broke back in May.  Information is shown on the post that verifies a purchase was made from Viagard, yet it was unnecessary to do so. Would it be wrong if Tonifromafar were the seller on that Ebay web site? 


wisdom1st, I'm glad you to suspect that I could be that seller in the US trying to get some hype about his product, that means that my English is somehow convincing enough (I'm trying to put a smily here but it doesn't work). Seriously, I found that link in a Spanish thread about the same topic ( http://foro.ganarpelo.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29223&sid=cdc15969f4b358d08bc8ebaea5552cac&start=160 ) but that forum is pretty lousy in comparisson with this one (by the way, one the guys in that forum says that Depo Melanin is workin for a buddy of his after two months something of using it).
 
About the link offering the powder, I've found a fundamental flaw, indications speak about mixing the powder with water but the original recipe includes some distilled water to dissolve the powder and then Disodium EDTA (if I'm not mistaken to be able to penetrate the cellular tissue).
I'm trying to gather information about the availability of the Disodium EDTA but I've found it to be cheap in a crystal form and it all seems to be a bit over my head by now.
By Pseudocatalase - 12/29/2013 2:36:22 PM
@stefanovic, pseudocatalase, once mixed, is a poor bet for stocking up. You can order our powder on eBay, it will last indefinitely.  It comes with all you need to mix it up, and instructions on how to do so. We do not know if recent gray, or long-term gray are more responsive at this point. There is a link to our eBay listings about 10 posts up in this thread. 

Pseudocatalase turns hydrogen peroxide in the skin into water and oxygen. It also reacts with a wide variety of other bonds (mostly hydroxyl bonds), and once it does it will no longer work on hydrogen peroxide. If it is "degraded", then it has already reacted with something and will not work on hydrogen peroxide. We recommend people find a smooth, clean, surface and place one drop of their pseudocatalase containing product on that surface, and then cover half of that drop with a drop of hydrogen peroxide. Wait no more than 10 minutes, and the bubbles from the oxygen liberated from the hydrogen peroxide should be obvious. If not, you do not have an active pseudocatalase product. This test can be done by virtually anyone with no danger whatsoever, and it is a valid test of the activity of your product. 
By Jen - 11/12/2011 1:10:30 PM
Dunno if the herb Fo-Ti has been discussed here.  Has many benefits along with reversal of gray according to reports. Just started taking it myself, although at 60+ I still only have a bit of gray.  I feel my longtime practice of the Yoga headstand has something to do with that.
Anyway, Fo-Ti: http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/adaptogenic-herb-foti-for-longevity-and-energy

excerpt (note the last benefit listed--pretty impressive!):

Studies of Fo-Ti’s Benefits

As is typical with herbs and natural remedies, funding for research on fo-ti has been limited. Nonetheless, some very compelling studies do support this herb’s legendary reputation. Here are a few:
  • In one study, a traditional formula with fo-ti as the main ingredient was shown to slow the aging of vital organs in aged animals, especially the reproductive organs. The same formula also demonstrated significant results in human clinical trials.
  • In another study, Fo-ti capsules were given to 60 humans above age 50 who had been assessed in a Chinese clinic as experiencing “kidney deficiency.” Out of the 60 cases, 30% were considered “extremely effective” and 53.3% were ruled “effective.” That’s a whopping 83.3% combined efficacy!
  • Another study gave Fo-ti liquor extract to 36 people with gray hair. After treatment, 24 completely recovered their dark hair and 8 more showed improvement. That’s a total efficacy rate of 88.9%!
By calc - 6/7/2011 5:48:07 AM
Another thing that might be of some importance is Magnesium level considering its involvement in DNA expression, ATP, etc. The normal range for serum Magnesium is eported as being roughly 1.6-2.6mg/dL. However reading studies on Magnesium research seem to indicate Magnesium deficiency below 2.2mg/dL and that the point of homoeostasis is actually around 3.0mg/dL. There are lots of claims that serum Magnesium does not reflect properly on Magnesium status in the body, which might be because the normal range is too low? Also, Magnesium is one of the things that black strap molasses has in higher quantities which might be one of the reasons it seems to work well for some people.
By stefanovic - 1/9/2014 8:53:49 AM
@troppo  after how much time did you notice the foti did something? Do you also see results where you're using the pseudocatalase?
By john46 - 5/5/2013 5:40:37 PM
So Ultra Swim for EDTA with Manganese (II) and Calcium in a Carbonate compound topically applied will squelch the Hydrogen Peroxide and assuming the melanocytes are still present.. restart the cycle.

Interesting, variations on a theme here.

Kind of suggests there could be a dietary deficiency at the core of the problem.. something critical to the cells that normally keep peroxide under control.
By Slider - 5/20/2013 12:33:13 AM
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/05May/Pages/No-evidence-of-cure-to-prevent-hair-going-grey.aspx

Sums up this PC-KUS 
By stefanovic - 12/15/2013 10:18:06 AM
I'm 31 years of age and gone grey in a couple of months time. I want to order something like go away grey but I wanted to know what you would do if you'd be in my shoes?
By Jcoireangus - 8/23/2013 2:13:48 PM
New development:

Viaguard has removed the depo-melanin page associated with my review. There is a different page with only one review. 

To me, this is bad news, another blow to the credibility of depo-melanin. Why on earth would they take it down except to lose all the negative reviews?

As for me, I've been applying the product now for 29 days. 

No grey hair with pigmented roots. 
I "may" have a few more pigmented hairs but really can't be sure. 

I'm nearly finished with the first of two bottles. 
By Ladd - 7/16/2014 7:02:10 AM
When you Google TB4 you get results from 2012. IF it worked well for balding, graying, or whatever then it would be all over the place. It's stale.

For the ones experimenting with Acetyl Hexapeptide-1 what has your experience been like so far (including change of skin color)?
By Dodge1980 - 9/14/2014 12:43:40 PM
You're right about the cause of depression being the thing staring you in the face each day. I've genuinely considered just shaving all my hair off to the skin - I keep looking at fellas with that and wondering whether I could pull it off, and the problem is I don't think I could! The problem is I see grey hairs and it makes me feel old and up until about three months ago I felt like a very going 34 year old, still playing sport to a decent level, going the gym, attractive girlfriend. Since the grey emerged, the girl has left me (don't blame her, she's 25, why would she want a grey haired boyfriend) and I'm struggling to motivate myself to keep fit like I was. I'd love to dye my hair but I shave it on a zero round the sides and a two on top so think it'd too short to take the dye or would just stain my scalp. Then I start to think about growing my hair and getting a new (grey friendly) style but I just don't think my hair type would grow that well - I've shaved my head since I was 18 pretty much. Grey hair is **** basically and shouldn't happen to someone my age 
By DDye - 9/19/2014 3:22:28 AM
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM200208083470614

The odd thing is that other abstracts report that for some people their hair got much grayer after using it.
By DDye - 9/18/2014 11:43:12 AM
Stefanovic, couldn't agree with you more on the PS.
By gotsomegray - 7/11/2013 1:01:59 PM
I think it was one of the original Amazon purchasers who said their Depo-Melanin bottle went rancid fairly quickly and think it should probably be refrigerated.  I haven't had a problem with my first bottle (about 4 weeks) but I haven't opened the 2nd one yet.

I'd call/e-mail and ask for an exchange if you haven't done that already.
By Zeno - 4/7/2014 5:09:52 AM
http://www.naturdieta.com/english/products/For_All/Mycolor/composition.php

A herbal/vitamin mix for gray hair prevention. Includes Kudzu (Pueraria lobata) :

For maximum daily dose (equivalent to 4 tablets of 800 mg.)
  • Amla fruit dry extract: 600 mg.
  • (Addition of tannin / gallic acid): 180 mg. / 48 mg.
  • Choline: 200 mg.
  • Serenoa fruit dry extract: 240 mg.
  • (Contribution of fatty acids) 108 mg.
  • Inositol: 200 mg.
  • Nettle root dry extract: 200 mg.
  • (Contribution of beta-sitosterol): 0.8 mg.
  • Horsetail top: 200 mg.
  • L-Cysteine hydrochloride: 200 mg.
  • L-Methionine: 200 mg.
  • Kudzu root dry extract: 100 mg.
  • (Contribution of isoflavones) 40 mg.
  • PABA: 40 mg.
  • Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B5): 18 mg. (RDA: 300%)
  • Folic Acid (Vitamin B9) 400 mcg. (RDA: 200%)
      It seems that Kudzu isoflavones stimulates catalase. So catalase could be effective for gray hair prevention. But maybe not for gray hair reversal.


  
By Zeno - 4/18/2014 3:03:44 AM
Thanks a lot  Stefanovic ! I really apreciate your help.

I agree that reversing gray hair should be our main goal.

But since we have this simple and scientifically proved gray hair prevention product  LEF should at least make something similar and sell it.

The Kudzu spray could be part of a LEF anti gray hair line of products or a component of a single product containing pseudocatalase and melitane.



By jamieh - 11/16/2013 3:25:19 PM
I ordered manganese chloride and calcium chloride from the German company but, out of laziness, have never used them. Instead, I've used depo melanin and have recently switched to pseudocatalase's shampoo and cream.

If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to ship them to you. As long as shipping costs are covered (I'm in New Zealand), I'm not too fussed.


By stefanovic - 1/14/2014 11:31:46 AM
so you should buy hydrogen peroxide and add a drop to the solution the next morning?
Any suggestions on good carriers so I don't have to test 50 shampoos before finding the right one. I'll take pics when I test it.
By Ladd - 2/5/2014 3:45:38 PM
@sefanovic

I have a different opinion than Pseudocatalase. Take it FWIW.


Different genes get switched on and off throughout life as the body matures and then ages (two different things). All the while environmental variables factor in as well (things like diet and lifestyle).

We know gray hair is influenced by 1) genetics 2) environment. The cause (outside of nutritional deficiencies), like aging in general, is the accumulation of cellular damage/junk that can't be removed by the body (notice how gray hair only pops up after physical maturation which happens to be when the aging process begins). The damage prevents your body from working the way it's supposed to. With that being said, for whatever reason (presumably involving various inherited genetic pathways) some people have bodies that are better at cleaning up the damage associated with pigmentation and thus maintain catalase production in the hair follicle for longer.

Things like unhealthy stress and smoking make cellular damage/junk accumulate faster and that is the reason why people with such environmental influences are proven to age faster. A lot of the damage cannot be removed by the body. For example, even after quitting a smokers lungs will never be the same.

I don't think lowering your stress levels will do much of anything to the hair that is already gray because the damage is already done, but you should do it anyway. Watch this documentary on stress: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG0ZuTv5rs and Google ways to deal with it (I've been there and am still trying to improve). Developing mindfulness through meditation (learn on YouTube) has been highly effective for me.

Pseudocatalase removes the product of cellular damage/junk (H202), but doesn't actually fix the underlying reason why catalase production stopped in the first place (aging). There is good news though. The cells involved with pigmentation are flexible and capable of bouncing back when H202 is removed. IMO the pictures posted are definitive proof that gray hair can be reversed to at least some extent. Only time will tell how much.
By DDye - 8/1/2012 4:25:39 AM
Welcome to the Forums, utopia.

Have you perused this thread: http://ask.lef.org/3912/How-to-reverse-hair-loss?PageIndex=1 ?

D Dye
Moderator
By oscar2u - 2/2/2013 6:42:03 AM
The BHT [ butylated hydroxytoluene ] seems to help me. It also seems to help with baldness also. There are times I stopped taking the BHT. But lately I have made a point of taking one 350mg of BHT every day. My hair has gotten darker AND the bald spot I used to have on top of my head is all but gone. There is still a spot about the size of a quarter that is slightly thinned but far from bald. I used to have a very noticable bald spot about 4 inches in diameter there. And, like I said my hair is getting darker. This is when I use a mirror to look at the back of my head. I still have a lot of grey hair in those areas that frame my face. This was a big surprise to me because I had not looked at the back of my head or the top for a long time. It always made me unhappy to do that. Well, make what you wish to of that. Making sure I take one 350mg of BHT is the only lifestyle change I made. I still smoke cigarettes and drink beer. Whatever,   ...Oscar
By Gaizz - 11/28/2010 6:00:53 AM
StinkyJoe, look thisWink

http://www.arrowheadhealthworks.com/sod_cat.htm
By Gaizz - 11/9/2013 4:07:58 AM
Señorgringo (11/8/2013)
My Depo-melanin test.....

http://uptiki.altervista.org/viewer.php?file=mkiwjzbdr8wf9t89hbbm.jpg


Wow, that is a strong reaction! Question - is that a recent batch? And how much peroxide did you mix with how much depo-melanin. Also, since a lot of names are being used - could you please confirm the product you tested is Depo-melanin from Viaguard? Thanks!!


It's a recent batch (october). I mix less than a nut of peroxide (loreal hair dye) with 2 drops of Depo-melanin...
By prestige93 - 2/15/2014 2:37:48 AM
Why nobody seems to care about melitane??
Please dont focus on cortisol levels. 1/3 of people has alterated levels of cortisol. Cortisol is the stress hormone and also is related with acne. People with severe acne had to take medication to discrease cortisol levels, but not really got early grey hair....
By gotsomegray - 11/4/2013 1:26:13 PM
Senorgringo - I believe if you have followed this message board thread and read all of jcoireangus' posts, you would realize that he is very objective in his observations.  I think your comment about his observations being wishful thinking are off-base.

I am probably overly optimistic (almost to the point of being gullible) when I try these new avenues for gray hair reversal, but I don't think I'll ever come to a definitive conclusion until I see very clear results.  In the end, I believe most of the posters on this board are also too objective to be persuaded by wishful thinking.
By StarGazer2 - 3/21/2013 1:37:19 PM
DanRo - I think you're on to something with Bruno Bernard.  I've already mentioned my very low opinion of that man on this forum several times.  He's been promising a product from L'oreal dating back at least 10 years.  I think L'oreal believes that if they put out a PR from his research department every year or so, it boosts brand awareness and sales for their dye in a bottle products.

john46 - I always wondered what happened to that forskolin (tanning) research you mentioned that was all over the media in September 2006.  But I have to tell you that I put that lead researcher (Fisher or Fischer is his name if I recall) in the same category as Bernard.  Back around that time, Fisher or whatever his name was would do a victory jig in front of anyone with a camera or a pen and paper and pronounce that a breakthrough in tanning was coming. 

There have been similar breaktrough claims from scientists for grey hair, hair loss, and tanning dating back 20 years.  And that's no joke.  At the end of the day, all of them (except for Rogaine) failed.  Some of those researchers probably didn't get much attention from the opposite sex in high school and college, and they get a charge out of getting attention from the media. 
By jomic - 2/13/2013 6:48:55 PM
Done! ;-) 
By Jcoireangus - 9/6/2013 3:54:35 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys!

I'll continue the experiment only I can't remark on whether my temples are repigmenting until the hair grows out. But I feel like the product is working there. As for my chin... I don't think there's been any change and to be honest, this is where I'd really like to see re pigmentation!  But that hair is mostly Snow White so it may just take longer. 

Anyway... In about a month I should have a better feel for what's happening at my temples. 
By xtian - 10/2/2013 6:56:57 AM
I don't see any blond, I see he got whiter...
By brm - 9/27/2013 6:52:30 AM
@Pseudocatalase. This colleague of yours who applies your cream on his facial hair, does his skin happen to get tanned in the same time? That's a concern. Getting mélanocytes to wake up in hair enhances the activity of those in the skin around. Melanomas may be looming.

You decide to use a cream as a carrier. What about a solution whose use would be way easier. Is this a possibility. Last point: the tricky part in the supply department is manganese chloride. I'm a bit curious as to how you can obtain any of a pharmaceutical grade.

You really, really should sell your thing on Amazon to make it available to most parts of the world. 
By dave - 11/8/2013 12:05:02 PM
I mixed some Depo one day with hydrogen peroxide and didn't seen any bubbling. Left it there came back maybe and hour later and there were bubbles.
By Latin_Thug - 6/6/2011 2:05:59 PM
I am looking for a soultion to darken hairs from the inside... im  naturly brown/blond haired but i want darker hair.

I know it has nothing to do with grey hair but it all hast to sometihng with melanin....
do you know any pill or injection wich darken hair color
By StarGazer2 - 5/7/2013 5:14:24 AM
L'oreal researchers might have an incentive to not release a product that cures grey hair, but your reasoning doesn't make sense for another entity that isn't in the hair coloring market. 

A pharma or cosmetics company that is not selling hair coloring products would acquire the rights to this if they were certain it could be a commercial product.  They would make a killing off of it.

There will always be hair coloring products even if this reached the market.  Many people color their hair just because they don't like their natural hue. 

I would agree that given the history of grey hair research (and hair loss research), it's likely to be something that never reaches the market.  

I would need to see photos on humans before getting excited about it. 
By troppo - 2/10/2014 6:24:55 AM
Putting it on facial hair and head hair.  Agreed on Altris Gel - just need to find a source to get it to the US. 

We'll see.
By Romi - 12/3/2013 11:55:06 AM
I have used Latisse on my grey eyelashes (vitiligo case) for three months with no success what so ever .... it did however make my eyelashes thicker and longer ... but they remained white ... eyelid darkened but all went away when I stopped.  I also used narrow band UV device back then.

Latisse is very safe even when used next to the eye .... it was an eye medication for a long time .... but again I dont think it is effective antigrey.

Now, I am curious about the peptides, does any have any tips about those. 
By Ladd - 12/18/2013 5:41:05 AM
@wisdom1st Right. I thought about your original observation "I think the product is more effective on the hairline because it is getting a direct application. The product is getting absorbed by my hair before it makes it to the scalp in other parts." quite a bit.

1) How much of pseudocatalase is actually getting to the scalp? When you factor in hair "obstruction" and water runoff/wet skin how much effectiveness is lost? For example, let's say the 100% efficiency bench mark is applying lotion to a dry arm with the purpose of treating vitiligo. What if using shampoo, in the shower, with an average amount of hair significantly lowers the efficiency? The difference in effectiveness could be substantial.

2) UV rays won't hit the scalp after a certain length of hair (it depends if your hair grows curly, straight and out, or straight and flat). Regardless, it doesn't take much to block the sun out. Melanocyte activity MUST be stimulated.

The effectiveness on shaved facial hair (via lotion) in combination with sun exposure would be very telling.
By DDye - 8/2/2013 8:47:03 AM
It is not known what the effect of increased absorption of the compound you are using would be as a result of DMSO, which could cause more of it to enter your bloodstream that would otherwise result from a topical application.  Caution is advised.

D Dye 
By DDye - 1/20/2012 6:02:23 AM
Copper or zinc are best consumed with a meal for that reason.
By DDye - 3/7/2011 4:20:57 AM
Most Americans use "gray" while in England and elsewhere "grey" is used.
By stefanovic - 9/17/2014 1:33:15 AM
Hair dye is a solution in the eyes of many doctors. If you make a bigger deal out of it, you have other more mental problems. That's the general consensus visiting local doctors. On the other hand they were not interested in doing some research even when I gave them links.

People have had reversal and more and more people coming to this forum see solutions and no complaints. If doctors don't want to see it as a priority, it's thei choice. We cannot force them but what we can do, is trying the more reliable stuff knowledgable people come up with, make it adjustments to make it better.

As long as you havent tried a certain something, you don't have the right to judge it. The PC alone didn't seem to be succesful for most users, but adjustments have been made with melitane. Unfortunately I had to stop after two months because I hadn't been able to order for a while, but I already saw results on the lighter hairs. Right now I"m starting again and it won't be before month 4-5 that I'll be able to say: this is a step in the right direction.
By stefanovic - 2/6/2014 12:30:02 AM
I have the results of my bloodwork. My evening cortisol is 17,1 and normal values for someone like me should be between 2 and 12 ug/dl
By StarGazer2 - 5/2/2011 4:26:41 AM
I'm not endorsing this, but I got this news in my email today:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/293885

And I certainly don't endorse this product, but some of you might want to read about it:

http://www.greydefence.com/
By john46 - 3/16/2013 8:16:37 AM
That is a funny comment.

I had not thought of looking up the researchers and checking their hair.

But it is a good point.

Et Tu Bernard ?
By dave - 7/11/2013 8:42:48 AM
I just opened my 2nd bottle of Depo Melanin last night and it smells REALLY bad, the first bottle smelled like sour milk after a few days so I put it in the refrigerator. The other unopened bottles I didn't. This new bottle has a different smell. I wonder what would cause this stuff smell so bad? Hope it is still good. I have been using probably over 4 weeks now and no change noted yet. 
By DanRo - 12/9/2013 5:38:33 AM
@Ace_Road, thanks for the link, in my search regarding melitane I did not come across that study. The Research Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences is a peer-reviewed international monthly so their results could mean good news. The reason most of us probably haven't heard of melitane is because it hasn't come to the states yet that I can tell. So the questions are will we need a prescription to have it shipped over here and how much does it cost? Hopefully someone somewhere has tried it and can tell us whether it's worth spending the money on.
By stefanovic - 6/10/2014 8:58:10 AM
I think most of us have taken before and after photographs. I've even had blood checks on a regular basis. All it did, was breaking down my hair. Shampooing twice a day for 5 minutes is never a good idea.
When you buy some hair dye ( for instance) and you let it sit for half an hour, everyone will respond. The end results might vary but we will respond. Same for UV exposure, cleansing our skin with soap. We all response, some in a different way but there is some response.
The thing is: 5-10 users on the forum have no response. Even though it's possible some have a different background, it shows that IMHO very little is known about the pseudocatalase route when it comes to reversing grey hair. There is a theory and it's a shame Mrs. Schallreuter doesn't want to give more info ( that's what I think at least). But is this story really like: no response after 3-4 months, then quit because you will never respond? Or has it something to do with the fact that this treatment needs a few more adjustments before it's effective.
The LLLT builder told me his device works also by increasing SOD, it would be cool to know how that exactly works ( you find some real people testifying they used it for baldness but the hair darkening happened to be a side effect)
By stilltryin - 6/10/2011 6:29:12 PM
I just got a bottle of Grey Away (Claude Bell).  It has some ingredients that frighten me, and they're misspelled to boot. 

 

MANGANESE ACETYLACETONATE

Amonium Hydroxide

Polyquaternium-10

Superoxide Dismutase



The manganese seems to be the worst one based on what I found.  

http://www.chemcas.org/chemical/msds/cas/AAA/AAA18762-14.aspI am particularly concerned by the risk phrases listed:



 



"R20/21/22 Harmful by inhalation, in contact withskin and if swallowed.



R36/37/38 Irritating to eyes, respiratory system andskin.



R40 Possible risk of irreversible effects."



 



other lovely phrases include:



 



"Possible teratogen. May cause damage to the nervoussystem. May cause damage to the nerves. May cause damage to the lungs"



 



I think that's enough said.

By Jcoireangus - 9/4/2013 8:00:21 PM
brm


Believe what you like. It makes little difference to me. If I find this forum to be an unwelcoming place, I'll just take my marbles and go play somewhere else. 

 
By EN8686 - 9/14/2014 1:39:06 PM
Dodge1980 (9/14/2014)
You're right about the cause of depression being the thing staring you in the face each day. I've genuinely considered just shaving all my hair off to the skin - I keep looking at fellas with that and wondering whether I could pull it off, and the problem is I don't think I could! The problem is I see grey hairs and it makes me feel old and up until about three months ago I felt like a very going 34 year old, still playing sport to a decent level, going the gym, attractive girlfriend. Since the grey emerged, the girl has left me (don't blame her, she's 25, why would she want a grey haired boyfriend) and I'm struggling to motivate myself to keep fit like I was. I'd love to dye my hair but I shave it on a zero round the sides and a two on top so think it'd too short to take the dye or would just stain my scalp. Then I start to think about growing my hair and getting a new (grey friendly) style but I just don't think my hair type would grow that well - I've shaved my head since I was 18 pretty much. Grey hair is **** basically and shouldn't happen to someone my age 


You pretty much summed up my feelings exactly. Imagine it happening at 27 like it did to me. or Ladd, who I think is 24-25.

I feel the same way with the physical fitness. I used to workout at least 4 times a week and I barely go anymore. I just don't see the point. I'll have a fit body and a bunch of grey hairs on my head. It just doesn't go together.

I haven't had any girls make negative comments to me yet as its not that noticeable at this point. But if it continues going at the rate it is, it should be plenty noticeable by the time I'm 30. Just so f'n sad.

It blows my mind that people brush something like this off and think its okay. On what planet is it okay to starting aging in your mid 20's? Crazyness.
By stefanovic - 8/17/2014 2:02:23 AM
@Ladd: henna mixed with indigo gives dark hair ( with no red in it) even on grey and it's permanent. For some it fades a bit after many months but by that time most have already re-applied.
Henna mixed with amla gives more auburn tints and tone down the red. I've done it all, it's cheaper than dyes and your hair remains healthy. But of course it also grows out and that's why I'm here, to find something that doesn't give me the roots.

I started with wheatgrass ( was pretty cheap over here), tell myself not to expect anything from it, but I want to have tried it, LLLT is expensive so I want to try the other options first and now I'm gonna check out the nucyte websites :-)
By wisdom1st - 5/23/2013 7:51:23 AM

I’m a pre-mature, and have given up a long time ago. I figured if a legit treatment became available, the world would know.  That time has come. There are literally thousands of published postings on the internet with this latest information with regards to a topical synthetic catalase. All of the L’Oreal pills, the EXTLife, and others were supported by only a fraction of articles in comparison with this latest information. The technology is there to reverse grey hair back to its original color, and it is legit.

As a graduate with an economics degree, the law of supply and demand is what will determine the price of the product(s), and the amount of competition will be a determinant as well..  Demand is what will expedite this technology to market, and my guess is there is an enormous demand.

The PC-KUS product, or an earlier form of it, has been used on several vitiligo patients for better than 12 years, and there have been no known negative side effects. These results will be taken into account in the development of the product that will go on the market.  In other words, they are not in the earliest stages of getting product to market. However, there are fine lines between cosmetics and drugs. From what I’ve read, cosmetics do not have to be FDA approved, whereas drugs do.  Vitamins do not have to be FDA approved either, as long as they are made with natural ingredients that are in foods, or that the body can produce naturally.  That is why the GoAwayGrays, ect were able to ge t their products on the market quickly after learning about the whole catalase breaking down hydrogen peroxidething.  Go back to some of the articles on the internet, and read the quotes made by Dr. Weismann, who happens to be the chief editor of FASEB.  He has quoted, “This condition, while technically cosmetic, can have serious socio-emotional effects on people.”  I read that as an indication that they wouldlike to push it through as a cosmetic.  Wecan only hope that’s the case, for vitiligo sufferers as well.

I’ll say this again. As much as many of us desire a revolutionary product of this status, the desire to sell it and make enormous profits is just as strong.  There will mega-pressure from many to getthis product on the market. 

By troppo - 1/17/2014 7:36:37 AM
Just read the Romi link and am concerned about the mention the Green Tea and spicy food is actually bad for vitligo/gray hairs (that is how i read it).  

Do you guys agree with this?  I drink a lot of Green Tea and am concerned...





By Beefster - 7/28/2013 10:41:38 AM
Doing a voluntary experiment on my 30 year old guinea pig son. I wanted to see if a young healthy person that has just started to get a few gray hairs would get better results. He's very healthy, eats right, does some supplements and works out daily.

He has a small patch of about 7 to 10 gray hairs in a 3/8 inch diameter on the back of his head, hardly noticeable. I started applying the product twice a day, less than a week ago. Two days ago I found another patch of about 5 hairs behind his ear and started applying there too.

Today we got together to apply the treatment and the first patch is already very hard to find. There are a couple still grayish that you can spot if you look hard and know where the original patch was located. I even used my glasses to find them which I hadn't needed to do before. The other hairs seem to be changing already, because they are already dark enough that I can't find them. My son didn't believe it and got a hand held mirror to look and agreed. My wife thought we were full of bull until she looked at it herself. The hair behind his ear is still unchanged but its only about the second day of treatment.

I kept thinking it was harder to spot his gray hair the last couple of days, but I just chalked it up to my vision. I'm actually shocked that he could get these kind of results that quick.

Does older white hair take longer to reverse.... Yup

His treatment included no DMSO
By kench - 12/26/2010 1:45:58 PM
Tom -
Thanks for your thoughts on the evolutionary biology of gray hair.

My feeling is that graying could have been evolutionarily preserved for the benefit
of the social group. Gray hair, plus other markers, are used by the group to
give a quick indication of age, and hence various status or health states.  On women,
it indicates getting on in reproductive age. On men, it indicates experience (maybe
knowledge or wisdom); and also simply survival of many years.  These markers
and indicators have been certainly used by groups for millennia, to the assumed benefit
of the group and our species.

If evolution preserved this function, then there may be something (biochemically)
going on beyond the normal aging of the melanin-producing system, i.e normal aging
produces the time- continuum of graying, but some other function keeps it from being
easily ameliorated, either randomly, by diet, environment or new mutations, or by directed
study and effort.
By stefanovic - 5/27/2014 7:39:35 AM
How come it often takes days up to a week before posts get approved. Not the ideal way to have a nice forum discussion.

On topic: I'm four and a half months into the pseudocatalase experiment with zero results. I already cut back the applications to once a day because my hairdresser told me my hair was destroyed. I never had it with other shampoos or hair dyes. I don't really know if I want to re-order, feels a bit like wasting money.
By Transpower - 9/16/2012 3:59:22 PM
I've been hoping that MSM (at a dosage of 2000 mg/day) would work to return my mustache color back to brown from "salt and pepper", because MSM keeps the rest of my hair and skin feeling so fantastic.  So far, I've noticed a little darkening of my mustache, but nothing major--yet. One other thing about MSM:  it has lessened my appetite somewhat, so I have fewer food cravings.
By Tom. - 10/31/2010 1:21:33 PM
In an interview with Durk Pearson found on the web he says:

"... Just as a silverback (silver haired) gorilla tells the other gorillas "I'm an old gorilla; I've seen it all and if you have a problem I've probably seen it before and I can help you survive during the next drought or during the next flood," similarly, so do silver haired (or bald) humans tell other human beings. Back in the bad old days, not all that many people had a chance to live to the time when they had silver hair or became bald. In early times, silver hair and baldness was a social signal that announced, "this is a wise old man."

I also saw a show recently on a nature, T.V. channel where researchers took two fake lions and put them about 20 feet opposite one another in the wild field.  Both were exactly the same except one had a shinny, young mane and the other was grey.  The lioness were all interested in the one with the young mane.   Regardless of their scent, vocal or sounds, this shows that animals use physical, aging symbols to detect the young from the old.

In humans, grey hair can make a person appear chronologically 10 to 15 years older.  Although, you might want to embrace your grey hair and wear it as a badge of honor.  It shows people you've been around in this world for some time and have successfully extended your life and have experience and knowledge.  If you combine grey hair with a fit, athletic body, imagine the sign of accomplishment that displays.  As long as you're fit and healthy physically, grey hair isn't a sign of being feeble.
By evermore - 2/2/2012 4:12:12 PM
Grey hairs, rejoice

symbol of wisdom

baldness, more wisdom

you are just living in the wrong culture,

just act the part, hey, hehe
By DanRo - 8/23/2011 9:02:41 AM
Vitiligo is caused by too much hydrogen peroxide in the skin. That's why I think there's more credibility in the finding that it's same cause of graying hair. Also because compounds like bimatoprost are capable of restoring pigment proves that it is possible to overcome the h202 interference and that the melanocytes are not dead or so severely DNA damaged that they're incapable of functioning any longer.
By h8grey - 9/17/2014 12:41:23 PM
stefanovic what is your circulation like?

Here are the symptoms from http://www.poorcirculation.org/symptoms-and-causes.html

I have 5 of the 14 symptoms they list (below).

  • Cold feet and toes - not just in winter time
  • Cold hands and fingers
  • Feeling numb in certain parts of the body especially the extremities
  • Feeling tired or having a lack of energy much of the time
  • Some hair loss can be because of bad blood flow
  • Having regular dizzy spells
  • If your skin gets dry even though you drink plenty of water
  • Swelling and water retention - especially in the feet
  • Lumps in blood vessels and varicose veins
  • Some headaches can be due to this
  • Cramps and pins and needles
  • Feeling short of breath at times
  • Blotches and blemishes in the skin
  • Poor blood flow to the brain may affect memory
By prestige93 - 3/13/2014 7:15:40 AM
And anybody knows what is value's pH of the average shampoos on the market today?
By Slider - 2/21/2011 8:24:25 AM
Black srap Molasses tried it for 6 months = nothing

Do not like the new forum at all

Good post StarGazer

Very dissapointed after 2 years of the Catalase discovery = nothing
By Hairy2012 - 5/27/2013 5:08:58 AM
Update:

Coconut Oil is said to reverse or prevent.  I have been taking it for a few months and it definitely doesn't prevent it.  I am starting to wonder if my drinking caffeine and stressing about this causing the situation to get worse.
By Señorgringo - 11/12/2013 1:32:54 AM
"Newbie board posters aren't going to speak for the grizzled (pun intended) veterans.   If you don't like my skepticism, tough."

@Stargazer: FWIW - I for one greatly enjoy your straight to the point Occam's razor approach :-)
By h8grey - 9/15/2014 12:51:09 PM
@stefanovic I have read every one of the 139 pages here, that guy Jim has had a very minimal improvement and Pseudocatalase has posted a couple of images but interestingly no 'before' pictures.

I just think that my simple regime can beat any topical therapy mentioned here. My improvements have been slight but can anyone show us a picture of a better result?

I have just ordered a jar of Morgan's Pomade as I really want a topical treatment to work, its cheap and gets very good reviews.
By Englishbull - 7/30/2013 9:30:55 AM
Beefster do you believe the product works?
By prestige93 - 1/15/2014 9:40:02 AM
I will be very interested in what shampoo to use as a carrier too. I purchase the powder, and i am waiting to arrive. In my country (Portugal) there is neribas creme, but what i do with that mix? just soak the cream in the hair? sounds a bit awkward. would be so much easier with a shampoo or conditioner
By xtian - 11/12/2011 11:26:19 PM
The graydefence package I ordered never arrived, 2 months passed... I asked for total refund and they gave it without a blink of an eye the next day, so... at least the company is serious
By jamieh - 6/18/2014 9:47:16 AM
Do the tricomelan folk ship outside of Italy?
By DanRo - 7/8/2011 6:44:39 AM
An interesting new study on Bimatoprost and vitiligo, it definitely affects melanocytes. I'm tempted now to purchase some 0.03% bottles and try it on my beard hairs since you only need to use it consistently for a few months then once or twice a week thereafter:

http://www.skinandallergynews.com/news/medical-dermatology/single-article/bimatoprost-repigments-vitiligo-patient-skin/67821edc35.html
By stefanovic - 5/30/2014 10:37:58 AM
I have very thick and longer hair. Short hair looks very bad on me.
Also there should be an alternative to washing it twice a day. It's just not good for the hair. My hair feels like Barbie's hair at the moment, even worse.
I hope we get more response on other users' regimen. At the moment ( started doing it since last week) I'm only washing it once a day with the PC shampoo I made myself.
By stefanovic - 2/24/2014 11:33:31 AM
As a user of melanotan ( which is a MSH-stimulator) I can tell that the light hairs on my head get darker. I mean the blonde reddish ones. It doesnt have an impact on my eyelashes and eyebrows which make it look very odd. I still have greys on melanotan.
Melitane is also a MSH stimulator that's why I believe it could work more locally ( on blonde lashes for instance)  but maybe for greys a combo melitane-pseudocatalase would be ideal.
By stefanovic - 2/8/2014 2:50:34 AM
PS Update on the pseudocatalase experiment: after 2 weeks and one day I noticed some bubbels appeared in the solution. Not that many but they were visible. I did the peroxide test and afterwards about 100 times as many ( could be 50 times too but just an increased amount) of bubbles appeared. Really many many bubbles.
Should it still be active?

Can you use the neribas cream as some sort of 5 minute shampoo and then wash it out? Or will it be too sticky and a waste of the product if you use it twice a day? My hair is pretty long.
By mrkq10 - 6/5/2011 2:09:55 AM
Thanks for the topic, however, I believe that grey hair reflects someone's personality. I don't like to be with black hair at age of 50 for example. I think this is god's gift.
By Ladd - 4/29/2014 5:49:04 AM
I have used something like neribas (VERY similar) for 4 months.

When it dries it does stiffen the hair (like a really weak hair gel). It's not something you apply, leave on, and then walk out the door like nothing happened. There is no such thing as a "leave on" product that doesn't show.

Regardless, EVERY single time I have used the product it washes out instantly. "5 days" is a ridiculous exaggeration. It doesn't take that long to get bubblegum out.
By dave - 7/16/2013 7:17:26 AM
replacement bottles arrived today!
By Zeno - 2/27/2014 9:10:08 AM
Seems interesting ...

I dont know anything special. The combo melitane/ pseudocatalase could be efective, but at this moment it seems there isnt enough evidence.

Of course the best attitude is to do our own research and keep trying. Big companies cannot be trusted.

Years ago I sugested that LEF developed a anti gray hair product. But LEF responded that it was not a priority. This time at least my sugestion was sent to the product development department but the are no plans to go ahead ...

For the time being  we can only rely on our own efforts.
By StarGazer2 - 4/22/2011 6:49:38 AM
I tried Glisodin for about 4 mos. and didn't notice any difference with the grey hair.
By wisdom1st - 7/1/2013 3:05:32 PM
Been using Depo Melanin for four weeks now. Although I haven't noticed any change, it is still too early to make a negative review. There were three days during that period where I did not use the product. I have a few gray hairs on my arms, and when I'm done putting the product on my scalp, I wipe the gray hairs on my arms with my hand. Today, I happened to notice one arm hair that is dark from the skin to halfway up the hair follicle, and then gray from that halfway point to the end of the follicle. For now, I am taking that with a grain of salt, but I will continue to apply it there and watch very closely.

On another note, I want to state that I researched Viaguard, and they have always been a reputable company. I emailed them about the product because I had concerns whether the product needed to be UV activated. Here is their response:

the product does not need uvb activation, but functions more rapidly with  a few weekly  hours of  sunlight exposure , or uvb light for a few minutes. The results with the product have been good
let us know 

Hairy2012 - I am still skeptical whether this product will work. Assuming that it does, it would make sense that some sort of maintenance would be needed. When we were all young and full of catalase, the hydrogen peroxide would be broken down before it had any chance to build. Now that our catalase levels have seen better days, the peroxide has built up. Once the large buildup of peroxide is torn down using this product, maintenance would be necessary because our natural catalase enzymes are still immensely diminished. Without the maintenance, the peroxide will once again build.
By stefanovic - 5/28/2014 5:49:44 AM
My greys have gotten worse over the last months.
If washing your hair every day ( or even twice a day) is necessary with a producht like PC, then it should be better to look into alternative delivery methods like lotions.
Stuff like melitane and minoxidil can be used with lotions.

I do admit, you take the powder, you mix it with a PH neutral shampoo no one else has mixed it before, it's not something very accurate and in the mean time you're only losing money.

I think the PC has been the main focus of most users over the last couple of months.

I wonder if there's a relation between LLLT and sun exposure. I've contacted about 5 people over the last month ( with no interest in selling devices) having claimed LLLT darkened their greys. Pubmed also released a few reputable research results on LLLT.
By Pseudocatalase - 1/2/2014 2:16:04 AM
@stefanovic, the powder comes with instructions for how much carrier to mix it with. That is the correct Neribas. 

Please keep in mind that pseudocatalase does not pigment anything directly. It only gets rid of H2O2 in the skin. This removes a hazard for the pigment producing cells so that they can begin to pigment again. It is almost always the case that repigmentation is a slow process, and you should expect GOOD results on the time course of 12-18 months, and not on the time course of a few weeks. With a pseudocatalase product, people see just noticeable results in 3-4 months. And any pigment that gets produced is coded in your own DNA - pseudocatalase will not change your pigments. 

Melanotan is not an approved product, and you are taking your safety into your own hands when you use it. I think combining an MC1 receptor agonist (like melanotan) with a pseudocatalase product is the most effective thing you could do to repigment. In vitiligo, for example, people combine narrowband UVB with pseudocatalase to get full repigmentation on that 1-2 year time course. 
By DDye - 10/15/2013 4:01:43 AM
Welcome to the Forums, troppo.

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 4/18/2013 11:55:31 AM
Welcome to the Forums, MV20.

D Dye
Moderator
By DanRo - 10/17/2011 6:42:06 PM
StarGazer a treatment for gray hair is already available with bimatoprost. A health spa in Texas was mixing it with some other ingredients and claiming good results. I'll try to find a link and post it.

Allergan is now in Phase 2 trials for hair loss and that should be on the market in a few years. Hopefully it'll be cheaper and in larger quantity than the small bottles currently available. I'm purchasing a few bottles of Careprost, which costs less than Latisse and will begin applying it to a few test areas on my beard and will let everyone know if I get any response. If so it would probably be an excellent treatment for those graying on the temples.
By prestige93 - 2/25/2014 8:46:31 AM
hello .
Do you think if we try the piz buin spray in ours heads the melitane will be absorved? I am asking this, because is the only brand that has melitane in a spray/lotion. Arround here we talk about melitane by lucas meyer, but until now, nobody saw that produt for sale by that company.
By prestige93 - 4/20/2014 7:31:47 AM
Ladd (4/18/2014)
Everyday for 6 months it has been melitane, melitane, melitane.

There are a tremendous amount of resources available for people to make any solution they dreamed of. I've seen numerous message boards dedicated to making homemade cosmetic mixtures.

You can also contact the creators and/or the suppliers of the products your interested in.

Someone knows the info you need and most of the time they will help if you don't approach like a caveman.

If you wanted a PC/Melitane solution that smelled like Unicorns, you could do it. The web is awesome.

Everything is there! It comes down to 1) fear or 2) laziness. I have not and will not sign the petition based on that principle alone.


I dont think i understand what you are saying... It is not so easy to make our own produts.. Until today, i am searching for a shampoo to mix with pseudocatalase, because i still dont know why the pseudocatalase forum´s member dont ship it to europe... I mixed the melitane with a shampoo, but seems a very basic thing.. I do want a product that includes pseudoctalase and melitane, but made in a professional way.. I dont know, if my mix is mixed in thr right way...
By DDye - 9/12/2011 4:30:21 AM
The above post is clearly advertising, however, it is going to be allowed this time so that anyone can check it out and comment on it, positively or negatively.
By Tom. - 2/24/2013 12:19:52 PM
Gosh this thread has been going on for a long time.

Name sounds like a tricky Jeopardy question.

Alex: "How to reverse grey hair".

Tom (hits buzzer first): "Alex, What is, Riah Yerg"?

Alex: "Correct! You're our new Jeopardy champion!".

Wink

P.S.
My thoughts on this: Just color your hair. When someone cures grey hair believe me everyone will know about it. Worring about grey hair may give you more grey hairs.
By dave - 2/17/2014 3:02:39 PM
Doesn't   HairSil  or  gray hair contain  the Melitane?
By DanRo - 9/18/2013 10:38:44 AM
How do we get Dr. Karin's product? It's only prescribed to people who go to their office in Germany and are diagnosed with vitiligo? It's the only commercial product so far to reverse gray hair, even if it's only the eyebrows. For all we know it might work on the beard too.

Why not ship it to the US, we don't need a prescription? They've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain.
By stefanovic - 6/27/2014 1:06:38 PM
Thanks for the info and updates. I received a new batch of melitane with a Lucas Meyer note added. Started on June the 12th. So I'm in 2 weeks and 1 day now. No results so far but I guess that's normal. I apply it as a lotion. In the beginning I had the feeling I wasted too much product so I decided to discard it into a sprayer which is easier to use.
I still have some product of the first batch left ( the one I mixed with DMI). I just wanted to know if anyone has objections against adding it to DMI ( dimethyl isosorbide) again?

Still wanted to know how comparable it is to melanotan?
By stefanovic - 5/30/2014 7:56:15 AM
I just have normal UV exposure just outdoors.

You can tell me it is legit but you can not prove it to all the dissappointed people over here. They've all had hope, they've all lost money. I have to work hard to make a living and I don't like spending money on a new miracle formula.

 Sunscreen works for everybody, some people need more of it, some need a higher SPF, but it works, same for hair dye ( the end results might vary but it works). Melanotan works ( some people need higher dosages but it works). Sleeping pills work, some might have more side effects, some might prefer one brand over another one but in the end it works.

In the end many users on this board have tried it over a long period of time with absolutely NO results. Why do all people on this forum happen to have no results? THAT is the question to ask. It's not that results vary in a way that some people saw a darkening to dark blonde and other to dark brown, but we have absolutely no results at all. Something fundamental must be wrong with the formula or delivery method.
I suppose we're all genuine people on a mission and we're not the next getawaygrey kinda people.
By Hairy2012 - 7/3/2013 5:07:59 AM
Well a couple of us are using it so we should know something in 6-12 weeks.  I, however, will not buy another bottle if my product runs out before I see results.  The scammers will tell you 12 weeks so you have to keep buying hte product.  My position is that you should see results in the purchase of 1 bottle of a product.  If I see results, I will buy additional bottles.
By Pseudocatalase - 1/24/2014 2:16:12 AM
Hi @wisdom1st. The two powders are not in equal quantity, and you should preserve the ratio. The reaction that forms the pseudocatalase is aqueous, so water must be used.  Larger amounts of water also provide more hydrogen peroxide to react with because small amounts of hydrogen peroxide are in water, or will spontaneously form if oxygen is also present. After the pseudocatalase reaction is completed, mix with the carrier. 

If you make a small batch (1/16th), yes you should reduce the water for mixing by 16 fold also.   
  
The concentration of the pseudocatalase to the carrier we set using the historic ratios Schallreuter used. We have no reason to think that would be horribly sensitive to the outcome. After all, it is just there to carry the pseudocatalase and not react. 
By EN8686 - 9/20/2014 1:09:15 PM
[quote]stefanovic (9/20/2014)
Looks like the PC without melitane in it.
Have you asked him the question how different it is from the other one and what guarantees you have?
His hair is shorter in the after pic which could also make it look better, but there is an improvement anyway. [/quote

Obviously there is no guarantees. 

Read his ebay page. 
By DDye - 8/25/2013 4:44:42 PM
Welcome, Hamilton.

D Dye
Moderator
By Zeno - 1/6/2013 9:21:06 AM


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/nyu-scientists-find-cure-gray-hair/story?id=13871004#.UOnKfqqmf3w

NYU Scientists Find Possible Cure for Gray Hair


"Gray hair is, along with premature balding, one of the greatest fears of image-consciousmen and women everywhere, but it may soon be a thing of the past. Scientists at the Ito Lab at NewYork University's Langone Medical Center have identified the proteins that cause gray hair, which could lead to an eventual cure . . .

"'Our hair follicles and the pigmentation from the melanocyte stem cells work in a very similar fashion, so it definitely can be applied at some point in the future,' Rabbani told ABC News."

[Article edited by Moderator]

By stefanovic - 9/30/2014 10:21:39 AM
GOOD POST, Slider. Could u elaborate on it? Seems to be that want to make it to market soon with good background. Interesting.
By Hairy2012 - 10/18/2012 11:21:33 AM
kuteguy (10/18/2012)
I havent read the entire 25 pages but wanted to give my personal experience

taking finnastride reversed my grey hairs to a certain degree and balding as well

but the OTHER sexual related side-effects were a 100 times worse and I stopped taking it


Are you saying finnastride caused impotence?
By wisdom1st - 12/27/2013 10:49:14 AM
@truth and beauty - Put a 990 grains of salt on a plate and then add 10 grains of pepper. Most people would see it as a pile of salt. You'd have to look closely to find the pepper. The whole idea of this reversal is not about me finding the pepper, it's about others noticing the pepper. So you are right when you say nobody will notice. And that's why I say the pseudo-catalase has not reached a success point as of yet. It's been 11 weeks, and the reversal in its entirety has been less than 1%. 

Mix on a plate 500 grains of salt, and 500 grains of pepper. Take 10 of the grains of salt away and replace with 10 grains of pepper. Not only would the pile look the same, but even on close observation, you could not accurately tell if there were more pepper than salt.  

Because I had only salt in certain areas is why I can see the new found pepper. I will be ordering another bottle soon, and I hope to see a better return than on the first bottle.
By Pseudocatalase - 11/15/2013 4:34:59 AM
The speed of bubble formation relates directly to the thickness of the cream. The pseudocatalase, before mixing with the cream, will react about 5 times more strongly than that of Depo-Melanin or Vitligo P142. They use an earlier pseudocatalase formulation, and the difference in reactivity is pretty well described in the literature. Why they use an earlier formulation is a better question, when it is clearly published that the later formulations are more active. The cream used in our lotion is as close as we could come to the cream carrier used by the published studies (which is only sold in Europe).

Vitiligo P142 also includes catalase in their formulation. Catalase is an enzyme, a protein, that disproportionates H2O2, but it does not penetrate the skin. We do not include catalase in our products. It has only been clearly demonstrated that pseudocatalase can reduce H2O2 in the skin. In this regard, a counter-top test may not align with the efficacy of the product in your skin. 

Please be aware that I have vitiligo, and I created the lotion to replicate the most active lotion used by the published studies. I was not satisfied with any commercial variants that were easily available in the USA, and for this reason I began to sell it, because I figured there were probably a lot of other people outside Europe that had vitiligo and were interested in pseudocatalase and/or combined UVB treatment.

I recommend waiting about 10 minutes before UV exposure.

The pseudocatalase is manganese chloride, calcium chloride, Sodium Bicarbonate, EDTA, and water, after they chemically react. The carrier is a very simple moisturizing cream (mostly water and petrolatum). The difference in the earlier and later formulations is not the ingredients per se, but the way they are mixed. 
By Englishbull - 7/24/2013 8:19:54 AM
I have contacted viaguard via eBay. I asked them why some people were experiencing the bad smell and why some people said it was like water and hard to apply. I will now copy and paste the response I got. (Word for word)



different people have there different opinions. The formula used to be mixed with a powder mixture we then found that the formula lasted longer and worked better with a liquid mixture. And a lot of people did not follow directions on storing the bottle after it being opened which can cause the smell. It must be kept cool, or refrigerated. The product itself is a serum, it is not a liquid and it is not a cream it is in the middle.

Sarah

- viaguard
By Englishbull - 7/27/2013 12:16:11 AM
I have taken the plunge today and bought some Depo-Melanin on Ebay. Sara from Viaguard also did confirm i should see results faster, as i shave my hair.

I will let you know when i receive the product.
By wisdom1st - 5/17/2013 9:33:13 AM
http://fightingvitiligo.com/?q=Introduction

The makers of PC- KUS claim they've tested replicated products from NW University (P-CAT), and a drug maker out of Pennsylvania.  They concluded that both products were similar to one another, but neither was effective at breaking down hydrogen peroxide into water and carbon.  The also said the shelf life was short, whereas PC-KUS shelf life is 12 months. They claim PC-KUS breaks down the H2O2 within 5 minutes of application.  Psuedo-Catalase was patented back in 1995, and the name seems to be generic.  If you read in many of the articles published recently, the makers of PC-KUS mention the word "modified" PC-KUS.  Maybe the link I posted above is for an old formula that was not very effective.  I cannot get the manganes II chloride, otherwise I would try to make it.  I would test it out on a small section of my scalp.  If anyone has access to get these ingredients, and are confident that they can make the product to scale, please do so and post your results.
By Pseudocatalase - 2/12/2014 10:32:04 AM
@stefanovic, many people use a different shampoo AFTER the pseudocatalase shampoo for this reason. The pseudocatalase needs to sit for 5 minutes to do its thing. After that, any hair treatment should be fine. Hope this helps.
By Dodge1980 - 9/16/2014 12:47:35 PM
I definitely link my extremely quick greying to stress but at the same time I can't help but think that the stress I've experienced has been amplified by noticing grey hairs. I'd noticed grey hairs when happy and would love for some concrete evidence as to the effects of stress on grey hair - from what I've read it's fairly inconclusive. 
I also think it funny when people talk about one of the things to do being reducing stress - if only it was that simple, no one would ever be stressed. Also why is that some stressed people don't experience greying? It's all a mystery to me and I'd love to know the real reason for my greying - if it's simply genetics (despite my mum and dad both having no greys) I could maybe just accept the bad hand fate has dealt me. 
By DDye - 10/20/2010 5:07:56 AM
This thread is the longest running on Life Extension Forums and has been called the most informative discussion on this subject on the web!  However, despite the name, "How to reverse grey hair," no one yet has the answer . . .  Nevertheless, you can learn about the research, the trials and the failures, the hypotheses and the hype with a group of individuals dedicated to get to the bottom of this aging-associated phenomenon.  

Or, are you one of the many men and women who embrace their silver hair color?  And does grey hair really make one look older? 

 
By dave - 7/23/2013 5:41:10 PM
The replacement bottles smell ok, have I no problem with them.
By Gaizz - 7/30/2012 2:50:57 AM
DanRo (7/28/2012)
A few years ago I posted about tb4 and people are still claiming it darkens their hair substantially but it needs to be injected, the topicals don't work so well:

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/peptides-growth-factors/79097-thymosin-beta-4-peptide-log-4.html




By StarGazer2 - 10/18/2011 6:22:09 AM
DanRo - If you find the bimatoprost link about the Texas clinic, please post it.  Thanks.
By Nomis99 - 4/11/2014 2:30:59 AM
Troppo, how did you apply the Melitane ?

Did you use it in a shampoo and wash off immediately or in a solution and left it on ?

Once a day or twice a day ?
By brm - 9/5/2013 7:58:05 AM
wisdom1st

Ageing expresses itself differently among people. Some will have wrinkles, unlike others who will have sagging, grey hair and/or grey beard etc. The inception age of visible ageing varies as well. You say that vitiligo comes with age, too. I don't believe this is the common medical view. Is it not more widely accepted that vitiligo is a consequence of a trauma? Ageing is not. Sure, Grey hair and vitiligo share in common a lack of pigmentation but this lack is of a different nature. With grey hair, only the hair is affected. With vitiligo, and particularly vitiligo infested scalp, it is not only the hair that is affected but the whole skin around it. In one case, there is a full inaptitude to melanin production in the area, in the other, only the transmission melanin to the strand.

You say:"It has now become fact that H2O2 is the substance that deprives both the skin and hair follicles of this pigmentation. It is strongly believed that a lack of catalse is the culprit because it will break down H2O2 when present" I don't believe this. I believe that H2O2 may be a factor, but it 's more of a scapegoat,or some trojan horse into the despaired community of grey hairs.

One other clue that makes me doubtful is the fact that some grey hair cases are partly reverted by a change in diet or quitting cigarette and smoking altogether. No vitiligo case, I think, has ever been even partly reverted thru any such mild cure.

You say:"But what if vitiligo was as common as gray hair, and seemed to come with age, and gray hair was as rare as vitiligo". But precisely the fact is that vitiligo is of exceptionnal occurrence whereas everybody suffers some day from grey hair (Though I accept the relativisim of the word disease since vitiligo sufferers do not exhibit organic disfunctions whatsoever).

Should I repeat that I hope to be proved wrong.
By stefanovic - 3/10/2014 4:55:51 AM
Nice progress. I currently look like the 8 months pic but at the age of 31. I'm 7 weeks into the pseudocatalase myself. No results yet but I have some exciting weeks ahead of me. The 3-4 th month mark. It's a bit nerve wrecking.

I've noticed this board has been pretty calm over the last week. I hope no one has given up. Also the melitane questions still need to be answered. It's too interesting to let go of it.
By zzgorme - 10/16/2012 9:03:16 PM
Hairy2012 (10/16/2012)
I agree with Stargazer's post.  When a claim is made, I do a generalized internet search for good AND bad reviews.  When all the good reviews sound like they are written by the same person, you realize a lie is being stated.

Not hair related, but I was researching a doctor for a procedure.  I did a google search and the same answer to a question about the efficacy of the procedure came up on several web pages.  I called the Dr.'s office and asked how all the posts about his surgery have the same story: son in TN, had procedure, now miraculously recovered.  After a day or so the office manager emails me and stated: several google alerts came to the office asking an answer to that same question so she just responded.  Now, the questions were on numerous different sites made by different people.  How in the world would google know to alert their office about a question about an eye procedure?

The doctor may be a good doctor, but posting the same lie on the internet reduces your credibility by at least 70%.  With reduced credibility, you have to have proof something works. 

No one can produce proof that FO-TI works.  If FO TI worked, George Clooney and all the stars dying their hair would be using it.


In that case I leave you to your own opinion. I'm quite happy that it works for me. No doubt some other people with see these posts and try it, for $5 or so they can find out for themselves. If not then it's only $5 and if it works then they did well.

I hope I didn't give the impression I was trying to convince you personally, this is just general information for people who come to this forum. You can really believe whatever suits you best, it is no concern of mine at all. In any case I have no other information to provide so I won't be back.
By Wally123 - 9/1/2013 2:04:42 AM
Is anyone spending time in the sun or under a uv lamp with it?
Science does suggest it may assist .

Maybe that is the missing link. 
By Jcoireangus - 8/26/2013 9:39:37 AM
Well, I am a biochemist, so I trust my objectivity. It's just that when I started this experiment, little was known about depo-melanin. I fully expected to see grey hair growing out with pigmented roots in a couple weeks. So I didn't closely examine my hair and document the number of pigmented hairs. I didn't exactly set up a well constructed experiment!

For the reasons already listed, I won't announce on this forum that the product works until I have more compelling evidence. Only time will tell. 

I'll run this experiment for two months or until I run out of product. 




Señorgringo (8/26/2013)
I decided to do perform this test on the chin area of my facial hair. I did take pictures and continue to do so. I started about five weeks ago. 

I also decided to go ahead and try it around my temples because that hair was also white and shaved short. 

I chose both these areas because I believed they were entirely grey. The problem is that until I started this experiment, I had never closely examined either location. Also, my hair is growing out. I started the experiment the day I got a hair cut. 

So I think I see more dark hairs mixed in with the grey. 

But the reasons I have doubts are as follows:

1.  Hair length is different in photos. 
2.  Lighting differs with photos. 
3.  Photo quality is poor (using iPhone camera)
4.  Areas I thought were entirely white were not. I can see some pigmented hairs in early photos. 

When I compare early and late photos, the areas treated do seem to have more pigmented hairs but because of my doubts, I won't at this point say for sure the product is working. 



I think if it was working you would be seeing a clear difference. When it doubt I would assume no progress. I'm not being negative - just rational. Again what I do for a living has trained my mind to detach myself as much as possible from an outcome of an action. Unless I see clear progress I would't say the product works. You can always cut your hair short again and then compare ;-)
By EN8686 - 4/21/2014 9:22:46 AM
Truth and Beuty, your images are not viewable.
By DDye - 5/30/2014 9:05:25 AM
Normally the Forums would not allow vendors to post their contact information, but exceptions are made because our members appear to be savvy enough to realize that nothing is guaranteed and are, at the same time, anxious to try a remedy that appears safe and has the science to support it. Plenty of post submissions by new members never see the light of day due to obvious "spamming," yet Life Extension realizes that in some cases an outside source may be of help to members.

We re-emphasize that anything purchased on the recommendation of any Forums posts or private message will be purchased at one's own risk. Furthermore, allowing someone to suggest a product on the Forums does not constitute Life Extension's approval of that product, nor guarantee its safety or efficacy.

D Dye
Moderator
By DDye - 10/9/2013 3:26:34 PM
Please keep us posted.
By troppo - 1/12/2014 10:22:06 AM
I am using a narrowband UVB lamp and my hair is relatively short - however, I focus primarily on sideburns and beard with the uvb lamp and the sideburns is one area where I think I am seeing some mild improvement.  Unfortunately, the beard has gotten worse in the last 7 months Sad

By Ladd - 8/14/2014 8:43:41 AM
@stefanovic

All henna dyes have red tint (even black). It isn't the best option for the majority of people. Hence why chemical dyes outsell them.

Non U.S. citizens can purchase (with an additional service charge) Nucyte from Ebay using companies like these:

By bronx cheer - 2/17/2011 1:10:27 PM
Greatings, I have not read through this whole thread yet, But i was wondering if anyone used the blackstrap molasses.

You take one tablespoonfull in hot water or milk in the mourning,everyday for three months.Smile

no more gray hair.
By John2004 - 9/29/2011 2:55:04 PM
I don't know if this has been posted before but it looks fairly recent. I think wnt protein has been implicated in both hairloss and greying hair. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/nyu-scientists-find-cure-gray-hair/story?id=13871004

http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(11)00530-7

I have a few grey hairs, mostly on my sides but a few on my top as well. I've noticed that the type of lighting (sun or light bulbs) along with the time of day or angle of the light can have an affect on  how much of the grey shows up or how noticeable it is. I think more grey shows up in sun light. Even the amount or intensity of the light can have an effect, sometimes more intense light can hide the Grey. If you're not totally grey, then the way you have your hair combed or the way the hair is laying can also affect how much grey shows, since the colored hair can cover the grey more or less, depending on how the hair is laying. Probably, even some mirrors are more or less forgiving than others. All of this makes it hard to see if anything is making progress or not. Even considering all of the variables above, I would almost swear that on some days the grey is more or less noticeable than others for no explainable reason. 

If a persons face has aged well, then colored hair can look good. If a person really shows their age in their face and has wrinkles, then coloring the grey hair can look out of place, especially if it's too dark. 

I'm not too worried about it, but if I had a way to stop greying and/or restore my hair like it was in my twenties, I would do it. I would get rid of the thinning spot on my crown as well.

Info on WNT protein:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/nusselab/cgi-bin/wnt/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wnt_signaling_pathway
By Gaizz - 1/29/2014 3:04:29 AM
[quote]DanRo (1/28/2014)
@Gaizz, I was able to translate most of the page but it doesn't say the name of the product, where it can be purchased, or how much it costs. Does it say it on there anywhere? [/quote







The product name is Melitane GL 200. 
I sent an email to norma.reyes@noregal.com.mx to ask if sent off in Italy. They told me to contact the site lucasmeyercosmetics.
By stefanovic - 1/7/2014 9:53:09 AM
I don't see a real difference either but to me it looks like an older man having been grey for many many years. As a more recent greying person I hope that I can see a bigger difference.
By StarGazer2 - 9/4/2013 12:23:07 PM
More on Medical Wellness Center...

I do now recognize their compounding pharmacy they work with by its address.  It changed names a few years back. 

http://murrayavenuerx.com/

 I use to get a hairloss product compounded from them years ago - it was 5% minoxidil before it was approved by the FDA in that strength for Rogaine.   I never had a problem with that compounding pharmacy.

If anyone here is interested in their pseudo catalase concoction, you might want to call Murray Ave. Rx direct and ask why their catalase is by prescription only.  They shouldn't have any problem disclosing exactly what the compounded mix is. 

This is another one (like depo) that I'm going to avoid for now.  The study published in the medical journal has created - and will continue to create - "Carpetbagger City."   That's the downside of all of this....

If the real deal ever comes along, we'll all know it.  There won't be several red flags associated with it.

Pretty soon, the back of magazines will have ads for pseudo catalase products...with the before shot of a depressed, grey haired man, and the after shot of a man with dyed hair with a bikini babe next to him.  Just mail your $79.99 to the PO Box in Nova Scotia for a 1 month trial.  
By Pseudocatalase - 6/24/2014 9:38:45 AM
We have new products. Along the lines of what some people here have been suggesting, we added acetyl hexapeptide-1 to our shampoo and lotion (this is the active ingredient in melitane from Lucas-Meyer). We have been testing this in-house in a few subjects since January, and all are responding better than with pseudocatalase alone. We are also now using a brand name "Nucyte" to refer to our products, as pseudocatalase is a relatively generic term. 

Some people here have been interested in maximizing absorption and in concentration. We use the maximal concentration advisable by Lucas Meyer, and our products are pH balanced to maximize the acetyl hexapeptide-1 absorption. 

Due to complexities in international shipping, and the relatively short shelf life of pseudocatalase (4-5 months), we are only selling in North America at the present. That is an area we seek to address in the future. We apologize for any angst in our non-North American customers.

Find it on eBay by searching "Nucyte" or "acetyl hexapeptide-1" if you are interested. We are proud to offer this clear advancement in our ability to stop and/or reverse graying of hair, and happy to answer any questions here or in private messages.
By troppo - 3/5/2014 4:01:23 AM
Anyone tried thymosin beta (aka tb4 or tb500)?  Been reading some reports that this hair darkening is associated with use of this peptide.  

By Nomis99 - 4/1/2014 7:47:12 AM
I have tried Morgan's Pomade several years ago without success.
I have also tried all similar products that have been available here in the UK along with a few that I have personally imported from around the world.
As soon as the Lead acetate was no longer being used and replaced with Bismuth citrate I think they all took a nose dive and where no longer the product that they used to be.
I then began a search for products that still contained the lead acetate and found a popular one from the states called 'Youthair'.
I bought a box full and imported them myself, used it for several months every day. My grey bits began turning a shade of orange but did not return to my natural dark brown, so again I gave up!

I was slowly becoming convinced that my grey was inevitable and here to stay until I found this site and here I go again with the Melitane which I have just received and am about to try and mix with a suitable cream or hair product ...................... I'll let you know ?!
By Transpower - 9/24/2012 2:21:43 PM
Interesting post, Beefster.  I did a quick Google check and found this http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1963083.  So emu oil may prevent further graying, but it will not turn gray hair back to the original.  Anyway, in my experiment with MSM, I am definitely seeing some darkening....
By Transpower - 11/3/2013 3:37:37 AM
OK, guys, let's do a study.  I ask each of you to purchase LEF's Dr. Proctor's Thinning Hair Treatment Shampoo and Vichy Dercap Aminexil Shampoo.  Use at least twice a week.  Let us all know if this works to lessen your gray hair after a couple of months.  These shampoos work for me, provided I massage them deeply into my scalp and mustache and let the chemicals react for several minutes before rinsing.
By DDye - 2/5/2014 9:22:45 AM
Ran across this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24494059 of interest for vitiligo OT.
By stefanovic - 9/18/2014 7:53:31 AM
I don't have a claim every new week. Onion juice was reported to raise catalase levels, I just think for practical reasons no one has tested it.
When it comes to LLLT, a few people having used it over here ( and probably not the best strength and used over a long time) noticed a change.
Log on to hairloss forums, google "grey hair" "LLLT" and you'll find claims that have nothing to do with selling commercial stuff like "go away grey". Send an email to overmachogrande and ask him about the guarantees, the theories about it.
My dermatologist even told me light therapy is a very good option right now.

When it comes to melitane or nucyte: I have used melitane for two months and then the first results "started" showing up. I had to stop because I ran out of product which won't be the case now.
It's a gradual process and new grays need more than two months to reverse. So it's possible that you start using it: older greys turn dark and then you see new greys popping up to go darker just months later.
By Hairy2012 - 10/12/2012 12:54:07 PM
The only thing that supposedly works is drinking GREEN FOODS but I can't find a single post anywhere that states the reversal of gray hair other than that one lady.  What I have noticed is that the internet just repeats what was posted on a page.  So, if one person states greens reversed by gray hair, then ALL of the internet will pick that up and run with it.  I am drinking a GREEN FOOD supplement now so I should know next month if it does have that effect.  The only effect reviewers rave about for GREENS is improved energy and a detoxing of the colon.
By wisdom1st - 12/14/2013 11:59:48 AM
Stargazer - How did you get hair regrowth?
By Ladd - 6/17/2014 7:03:50 AM
@Pseudocatalase

Really interesting. Thanks for sharing your findings.

"Hitting both pathways is better than hitting one in all users, but no one should expect to eradicate all their gray hair using this approach. Most people will get a quite noticeable difference in a year, and should start seeing changes in 3-4 months."

Has anyone hit an obvious ceiling of reversal? Is there still a possibility of complete reversal over 1.5-2.5+ years?

Also, is there any risk in using an alpha-MSH agonist? Stimulating replication with something artificial is kind of scary at first glance.
By Nomis99 - 3/12/2014 1:11:31 PM
stefanovic (3/12/2014)
Thx, what do you mean saying the PH must be 5-7 and how do you achieve it with a product like melitane?


The PH of whatever substance that you mix the Melitane with must have a PH of between 5-7 for it to be
active and to work ........................this is what I have been told anyway !
By gotsomegray - 9/9/2014 1:24:09 PM
Your stance on homeopathy as a cure for gray hair is definitely reasonable.  I also don't feel much confidence in homeopathic remedies for gray hair.  I just wanted to defend homeopathy a little bit in general.

It seems that there will be a modern science based remedy for gray hair at some point.  The question is how long - 1 year, 5 years, 20 years?  I fully expect there to be a remedy at some point in the future when I'm looking much more naturally gray!
By sartios - 2/16/2014 10:22:23 PM
Hi, i have MELITANE.. i will post it to e-bay in a few days, as ACETYL HEXAPEPTIDE-1
By stefanovic - 2/28/2014 4:55:54 AM
@sartios: I don't wanna offend you, there's just something I don't completely understand ( really hope you don't mind). You see: 1-2 applications a day with no rising? Could you try to explain what that means. and then the optimum ph for melitane is 5-7?

Once again, it's just to avoid a misunderstanding, no offense of course.


Maybe someone else could elaborate on the similarities of melitane and melanotan. My question is: melitane is also used in skin products to give people a tan. As light haired and red haired people have more pheomelanin compared to eumelanin, they're mostly lighter skinned. If melitane promises to give light haired people a tan, it's supposed to increase the eumelanin amount ( I guess that's what happens on melanotan, it give lighter haired people darker hair and darkens their skin as if they have a skin type 4)

If melitane would increase only the existing pheomelanin, it would never give people a tan, it would only make their skin red. That's why I suppose it changes the pheomelanin:eumelanin ratio, also in the hair. So lighter haired people should expect a darkening on non grey hairs as well ( at least if it's logical, but others could elaborate on it)
By StarGazer2 - 8/20/2013 11:06:46 AM
Interesting find, Zeno.  Here's a link for anyone who is interested:

https://www.google.com/patents/US8445004

So says L'Oreal: "This gel is applied to the areas to be treated twice a day (morning and evening) with a final massage. After three months of application, repigmentation of body hair or head hair of the treated area is observed."

I'm not much on conspiracy theories, but I could raise several surrounding this. 

This appears to be different than the pill they were said to be coming out with in 2015 (giggles) that would prevent grey hair, but not repigment hair.  That story as you probably know got a lot of media attention a couple years ago.  It was heavily scoffed at for the obvious reason...you would never really know for sure if it worked because you wouldn't know if you would have otherwise gone grey(er) if you hadn't taken the pill for 10-20 years as a  preventative.

But this patent you mentioned is not a pill.  So that raises some series questions.  Why tout the pill if you have (apparently) something better in research that actually (so they say) REPIGMENTS hair?  That would be a mega blockbuster. 

Conspiracy theorists have claimed L'oreal really never wants to put such a re-pigmenting product on the market as it would (so say the theorists) kill their current product lines that color hair.  I disagree with this theory because many women would still want the coloring products because they don't like their natural hue (eg, red heads who prefer to be brunette, or brunettes who prefer to be blonde).

The patent applicaiton was filed 4 years ago.  As you know, it was just approved in May.  So, why sit on this IF (big if IMO) the product really works?  Why not bang the drum on it?  God knows the company is not shy about banging the drum about their grey hair research.  They've been doing so for 10 years. 

Unlikely the regulators would classify this shampoo as a drug and not a cosmetic.  So it wouldn't take years of expensive trials before marketing.   And obviously, L'oreal has world class distribution and marketing expertise already in place.  So it's not like they would have to partner with someone to get this on the market.

Whatever it is, I would bet my nickle it's not the real deal, otherwise they would be coming out with this breakthrough product soon...and would have already been bragging about it.  We know Bruno Bernard can't stop running his mouth in the non-stop press releases. 

I do vaguely recall that they were working on a lotion/ shampoo that repigmented hair years ago. 

Call me extremely skeptical given their claims the past 10 or so years.  My guess is upon further research, the product disappointed and didn't justify a product release to the market.   JMO.
By Hairy2012 - 6/17/2013 5:48:25 AM
I ordered a pseudocatalase (sp?) cream off of amazon last week which had good reviews.  Yesterday, all of the reviews were deleted and some other reviewers said the reviews were fake and that the product doesn't work.  I haven't gotten the product yet, but I don't expect the product to work now since it has been disclosed that the reviews were fake.
By Englishbull - 8/2/2013 11:54:17 PM
Wisdom1st, that was a very interesting read! 

From reading what a lot of you knowledgable people write, it does sound that this formula is the way to combat the grey hair. I also agree with you that no other products on the market WORK!! I once tried reminex tablets and it was simply a scam! I do however hold hope for the Depo Melanin! 

As Wisdom1st says, Viaguard can only improve the product as time goes on, but then also other companies can jump on the bandwagon aswel. Maybe the original PC KUS does work? And maybe they will put it to market for competition?

All in all I think we should be happy that at least this formula seems genuine and that it can only get better. We are in a far better position now than we was 2/3 years ago...with all the spam tablets and no hope make belief formulas!!
By DDye - 9/13/2014 10:52:56 AM
" . . . a root cause of depression in people."

Was that pun intended?
By DDye - 9/27/2012 8:45:14 AM
Welcome to the Forums, dansjuan, and thank you for sharing your story.

D Dye
Moderator
By jobey - 12/3/2010 9:36:18 AM
I have often read that catalase is too large a molecule to penetrate skin.... although im not sure how accurate this is.

As i have stated previously, i think genistein is a good a chance as we have to stop/slow down graying......and possibly repigment.

Genistein increases catalase and therefore decreases hydrogen peroxide. It also increases melanin, as well as being a tyrosine kinase inhibitor. So in theory, it does three things which work against hair becoming grey.

It can penetrate the skin by being in some form of propylene glycol carrier........ the propylene glycol also helps the genistein to last longer.

I recently started back up making a genistein/alcohol/propylene glycol solution..... however, its messy and im not sure how much is being absorbed, and this means im often infrequent with application. Im sure some sort of glycol gel would be better..... but i have been unable to find one at a decent price.
By Jcoireangus - 8/6/2013 7:57:48 AM
I'm on day 11 of my Depo-melanin experiment. 

This is what I know:  no white hairs with dark roots
This is what I think:  my beard is darker. I think I may have a few more darker hairs that have grown in but I'm not confident of this. 

I plan to continue the experiment. I apply to my facial hair which I'm keeping trimmed very short and my temples (also short hair). 

I continue to document with photos and if this works for me, I don't care if no one believes it. 

By the way, I'm 53. 
By Señorgringo - 11/5/2013 11:29:31 AM
"Thanks for the post/links on the results of the hydrogen peroxide test with regards to the two products. 

I am interpreting Jcoireangus experience with Depo as unscuccessful because I believe he would continue using it if he thought it worked. One would be a fool to employ the product based on his experience alone."


Well, I'll be damned. As I mentioned previously - I had quite a few bottles of the Depo left and decided to test them all today. Guess what - seems like I had received two batches of the stuff. The ones I had been using had a slightly different label and those were the ones that were flat. There were others with a gray background for the product name instead of just a black rectangle. And when I tested those I actually got a pretty active response - very comparable to the one I'm getting with the aqueous mix I produced with pseudocatalase.

So now I don't know what to think. I could have been using a bad batch for the three months I was using it. Out of fairness I wanted to mention this here. I *strongly* recommend that anyone using the Viaguard's products perform an H2O2 test immediately (instructions in my previous post).
By Veto - 11/1/2013 1:13:09 PM
Hi folks! Cool

I'm new here, I'm from Mexico (sorry for my english) and I was almost going to buy Depo-Melanin until I  found this forum Crazy

I'm almost 30 years old and I'm getting crazy because mi hair has started turning to grey few years ago, I have been looking in all around the world for new products to reverse this and until now I believe there is nothing that really works right?

I have learned about Madiko-Sadaka (Dubai), Grey defence and other brand pills, and the newest: the catalase or pseudocatalase

But for all I have read I think there is not way to spend time putting all these things in your hair Hehe

I recently found 1 herbal product made here in Mexico that they promise to convert your grey hair.... mmm should I try? I will upload their pictures later so you can see some convertions

Thanks for reading me and have a great weekend!
By dave - 8/27/2013 5:53:26 PM
I have probably been using close to 10 weeks as well, no results for me  either. My hair s white so I thinking MAYBE it might take longer?? I am starting to get discouraged I would have tought someone by now would say that it really works.
By stefanovic - 12/29/2013 8:17:55 AM
@Pseudocatalase: is there a possibility to order the stuff when you're living in Europe? Could you also elaborate on degradation? If it would turn out to work for me, I'd like to stock up so then it should be better to prepare it myself if that's possible.

I've looked at photos taken about three years ago and I had no greys yet. Is this something that works better on people having gone grey recently.
By Nomis99 - 6/23/2014 4:36:42 AM
DDye (6/19/2014)
This is of interest, if only in regard to its mechanisms http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/jid2014202a.html


Would you intrpretate that as 'Metformin causes greying or can accelerate the process ?'
By Beefster - 4/16/2014 1:03:26 PM
@Ladd ... Nice article.

I haven't seen it discussed for a long time on this site, but there are many things that can influence the graying of hair: heavy metals, chemicals, high iron, high homocysteine  etc, etc. I think that in order to have a topical like PC work you have to at least give it a fighting chance by lowering internally all these known markers that affect catalase, sod and hydrogen peroxide levels.

I know that I am one of the few that have had some degree of success with PC or a PC like topical however slow the process might be. I also have never had any success with internal supplementation by itself. However,  I am pretty much convinced that to get these topical's to work a person needs to get all these markers for gray hair lowered as much as possible with internal supplementation.

I have used this same approach with returning white hair to color and with growing hair in bald or thinning areas. It's always best to attack from as many angles as possible.    
By DDye - 3/28/2011 4:40:31 AM
Welcome, Phoenix, and thank you for sharing your experiences.

D Dye
Moderator
By DanRo - 10/5/2013 2:36:30 PM
Sanpaku, that's an interesting post because I wonder if garlic or garlic salt is an Nrf2 inducer? About five years ago I went through a brief period where I began throwing garlic salt on everything. It was shortly thereafter that grays began appearing on the beard. I didn't see any connection at the time but there hasn't been much additional graying since cutting back on those type of spicy foods and as long as I stay away from them.

Could be just a coincidence with normal aging and genes kicking in but I do wonder at times how much of our diet and environment adds to the aging problem.

A little off topic but if you want your hair to grow super fast then rub some magnesium chloride on your body, preferably on the feet or legs two or three times a week. Unfortunately, it makes the grays grow very fast as well. MC is especially useful for quick wound healing so with any kind of bleeding cut I always go with that. It appears that MC speeds up cell activity somehow but it's curious as to whether it does that to the overall aging process as well?
By Slider - 12/20/2010 7:59:21 AM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101214181916.htm

More on the dangers of Hydrogen Peroxide
By zzgorme - 10/13/2012 3:44:26 PM

StarGazer2 (10/12/2012)
Fo-ti didn't work for me, either.  There are far too many people on this forum who have tried it without success. 

There are some on another forum that claim a natural foods diet changed the color of their hair.  

I take regimens seriously when they work for more than just 2% of the population. 


Fo-Ti obviously works for some people, look at the reputations and names of virtually all the herbs out there and most have been vindicated as actually working. It has always had a reputation for getting rid of grey hair from its original Chinese name. The real question here is how it works and why it doesn't work for everyone. It needs research to establish this, for example looking at newly colored hairs under a microscope and comparing that to pictures when that hair was grey. Seeing what chemicals changed in the hair, etc.

There are probably 3 reasons why it doesn't work for some.

1. Genetic. This doesn't tell us much, however prematurely grey hair seems to be genetic in some families like baldness.

2. Too far gone. Maybe some hair can recover unless the hair follicle completely dies and then nothing works.

3. Synergy. Maybe Fo-Ti needs something else to work along with it such as other herbs or nutrition. It might even be that the original grey hair happened because of malnutrition. It's a good idea to take a lot of vitamins and antioxidants as part of this attempt, for example maybe the hair gets bleached by hydrogen peroxide as the advertisements for catalase claim. I take a lot of Amla, maybe that helps. Also it may be that other Chinese herbs help the process, by themselves they don't reverse the grey but add fo-ti and it works. For example I take astragalus and ginseng. I also have soy, that's a connection to Chinese people where Fo-Ti was discovered.

4. Stress. There are cases of people going grey from stress, maybe this relates to a need for more antioxidants or needing to relax more.

5. Other hair effects. I've noticed an amazing change in the flexibility of my hair in lying down flat even when very short. This indicates more healthy hair in other ways, it might be necessary to change your nutrition to get this healthy hair effect and then grey reversal will follow. That might be easier to track down than watching for grey hair changes as it is only a few percent of difference per month. Also look for if grey hairs appear less grey, you might need to photograph your hair under the same light with the same camera and look for changes in tint with an art program to see this for sure.

6. Have a forum for those that succeed not just for those that don't. If people find something that works listen to all their stories for some common approaches. It works for some people, the others might be successful too with some trial and error.
By wisdom1st - 8/24/2013 8:54:30 AM
SenorGringo - I asked the same question and received an email back from the President of Viagard on July 1st. here is his response

Hi,
the product does not need uvb activation, but functions more rapidly with  a few weekly  hours of  sunlight exposure , or uvb light for a few minutes. The results with the product have been good
let us know.

----------
Regards,
 
Harvey Tenenbaum
Viaguard/Accu-Metrics




It does not surprise me that Dr. Shallreuter conveyed that she is not working on any solutions for graying hair. A product called PC-KUS has already been developed for vitiligo patients. and it is believed by Dr. Gerald Weismann, editor-in-chief of FASEB journal, that the product will reverse the graying process.  It has been noted that the product has restored color in eyelashes where pigmentation has been lost. Her team focuses on skin diseases.  Back in 2009, they noted that hair turns gray because it is bleached from the inside out due to hydrogen peroxide buildup. They may have stumbled upon this while they were trying to get answers for their vitiligo research.  Afterall, they both have something in common, loss of pigmentation.  Any improvements to this product will be done with the interest of ridding people of vitilgo, not graying hair. She is a scientist, and probably can't give a hoot about cosmetology.  Even though vitiligo is cosmetic, she believes the psychological effects are devastating on these victims, and I agree.  She has gained the world's interest, and the entrepreneurs, marketeers, and greedy SOB's are watching. Secrets this big cannot be kept long.  If there truly is a cure, it shall succumb to world demand.  

Assuming Viagard's product contains what they claim, and even if this depo-melanin is ineffective, it is a step in the right direction. Somebody is distributing a formula that is not oral, and is not a home-made remedy like putting coconut oil in your hair. It's a topical product containing chemicals (pseudo-catalase), and the word is out there.  There are probably several companies trying to develop a product to market right now.  Think of 'Go Away Gray', and all the other companies that followed with a pill to reverse the graying process. Of course, we know these pills are ineffective in most cases. But that is not necessarily the case with a topical formula, because we know PC-KUS exists, and the world knows it works!  Again, a secret that big cannot be contained when demand is beyond overwhelming. 'Jurassic Park', "Life will find a way" is a good analogy to what I am talking about. If not Depo-Melanin, then the next one.  If not that one, then the one after that. And at some point, BINGO! 
By Pseudocatalase - 6/26/2014 3:25:59 PM
@Ladd, and to others, this is sort of a business post, so bear that in mind. Currently we are exploring other options to provide acetyl hexapeptide-1 and pseudocatalase. However, we are MORE interested in providing the consumer with a MUCH longer shelf life combination than in providing a powder. I am fairly certain, from a business perspective, that this is the better approach. Such a product would open up non-USA sales and give the consumer what it wants most - an off-the-shelf, ready-to-use, product (probably a bit less expensive than today's offerings). I agree with your personal economic analysis, and you can pursue this personally without too much vigilance and make it happen. All the ingredients in pseudocatalase are cheaply available OTC, and acetyl hexapeptide-1 can be manufactured in quantities suitable to a few hundred batches (one batch would be about 3 months for one person). Of course, there are lots of ways individuals can make mistakes along the way, and we are here to ensure that a product is available with high activity and a reputation to back it. At the present, I think we are the only people providing a product with this combination, and we firmly believe in its safety and viability. We use it ourselves. Daily. That's how we got started. And our preference is to stay ahead of the curve in providing the highest efficacy and least expensive off-the-shelf products for use in treating gray hair and vitiligo. 
  
As a sidenote, to our knowledge, none of the other pseudocatalase offerings have followed our lead and used the formulation that is 4-5 times higher in activity than that provided by everyone else on the market. Do the hydrogen peroxide test to determine the activity of your pseudocatalase product. It does not lie. 

To others reading this thinking this may be braggadocio, if you use our gray hair shampoo, I would expect you to see a difference in 3-4 months. I would expect you to lose half your gray/white hair in a year of use. And if you are not following my expectations, I do not want you to continue to send us your money. We are not some Dr. Oz miracle treatment company. We provide what we believe is the most efficacious products on the market, and we want to set realistic expectations in our customers, and match or exceed them. That's the only good long-term business plan.  
  
By Ladd - 12/12/2013 6:19:22 PM
https://www.facebook.com/sandy.anderson.313924

Anyone considering or currently using depo-melanin look at this Facebook page. It's spam account that promoted depo-melanin across a number of gray hair articles. Look at the wall for the glaring evidence. I could find dozens of similar instances. How many good businesses do you know engage in such practices? Stay away from it. 
By Beefster - 4/22/2014 12:02:02 PM
@ Stefanovic: I am still finishing off My last bottle of Depo. I have just recently purchased the Shampoo, the cream and the powder from PC and plan to trial these. I'm interested if these work better than Depo. The shampoo would be convenient, if it works.

I have no experience with Melitane. My approach to Melitane is to trial MSH 2 Pro nasal spray which I purchase a few weeks ago. If anything significant happens I'll post. 
By Pseudocatalase - 1/31/2014 5:27:47 AM
That's my shaky cellphone hand. Sorry. 
By rainbow - 9/20/2012 6:18:20 AM
I did not see any mention of using and trying LEF's Super Absorbable Tocotrienols for hair health like preventing graying of hair. 
By DDye - 12/10/2010 9:42:01 AM
No.  What are the ingredients?
By DDye - 10/29/2013 1:47:02 PM
Welcome to the Forums, Charly, and thanks for keeping us posted!

D Dye
Moderator
By Young Einstein - 11/27/2010 5:56:14 PM
If enough people are interested in buying catalase, purebulk.com can add it to their store.

The have a forum for "What Products Would You Like To See," so if you are interested, go there and vote for Catalase.


Meanwhile, the closest thing I can find is GliSODin Powder from Beyond-A-Century.
By Gaizz - 2/11/2014 3:29:10 AM
http://trade.indiamart.com/details.mp?offer=4273408759
By Ace_Road - 8/2/2013 4:51:45 AM
Beefster - Thanks for clearing that up for me.  Are you still using the DMSO in conjunction with the Depo?  
By Tonifromafar - 9/12/2013 12:36:59 AM
Señorgringo, I guess that buying a large amount of it drew the attention of some clerk in the Customs (they are specially thorough charging whatever is chargable because of the crisis). I also live here and confused by the huge differences when it comes to pay I've eventually bought a couple of them through ebay.ca twice and nobody seemed to become aware of it, or maybe the amount didn't rise suspicions, I don't know, but this is my account statement every time: 
Pago PAYPAL *ACCUMETRICS (long serial number here) GB  -50,38 (charged in Euros)


By the way, 13 weeks and no change at all and I've found a couple of sellers offering the ingredients separately to be mixed at home:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10g-Pseudocatalase-PC-KUS-Recently-Reported-to-Treat-Vitiligo-Gray-Hair-/171056895170?fromMakeTrack=true#ht_3275wt_1172

and after reading this: "Any pseudocatalase that is "pre-blended" in a powder, or worse a cream or lotion, will begin to degrade once it is manufactured, and before you even receive the product. This is clearly described in the original peer reviewed published research"

I wonder if I've been using an inert product all along...  
By troppo - 2/14/2014 12:30:57 PM
Very interesting your ALT is high and cortisol as well.  What is the range for the testosterone reading?  

thanks for sharing
By Ladd - 8/14/2014 7:05:20 AM
@stefanovic

I've seen the hair dye conspiracy theories before. It just isn't true. With that logic Kodak would have never been uprooted by digital photography.

LLLT has been around for a very long time. If someone with a bunch of white/gray hair did LLLT and they came away with amazing results we would know. I don't buy it but I hope you prove me wrong.
By evermore - 2/2/2012 6:55:24 PM
the bad side of hyaluronic acid?? :  cancer metastasis ??

"Hyaluronic acid induces transglutaminase II to enhance cell motility; role of Rac1 and FAK in the induction of transglutaminase II", Y Kim, etal,    Biotechnol Lett. 2008 Jan;30(1):31-9. Epub 2007 Aug 7.

Abstract

The role of transglutaminase II (TGase II) in hyaluronic acid (HA)-promoted melanoma cell motility was investigated. HA induced the expression of TGase II via the nuclear factor kappaB (NF-kB) in melanoma cells. HA increased the Rac1 activity and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase (FAK). Transfection by lipofectamine of dominant-negative Rac1, and FAK-related non-kinase (FRNK), an endogenous inhibitor of FAK, suppressed the induction of TGase II. This suggests that Rac1 and FAK mediate induction of TGase II by HA. HA-promoted melanoma cell motility was inhibited by cystamine, an inhibitor of TGase II, and overexpression of TGase II enhanced melanoma cell motility through reactive oxygen species. Taken together, HA promotes melanoma cell motility through activation of Rac1, FAK, and induction of TGase II.

PMID:
17680210
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
By parlad - 2/22/2011 2:51:56 PM
Has anyone had success in reversing grey hair with Ho Shou Wu (a.k.a. Fo-Ti)? If yes, what was your daily dosage and how long before you began to see a difference? Is it also effective in reversing greying eyebrows?

I have read about potential rare liver reactions to Ho Shou Wu, but not sure how accurate that is.

I look forward to feedback regarding Ho Shou Wu. Thanks! Smile
By Nemo - 2/27/2014 6:01:24 AM
Thymosin Beta 4 gave me a very strange and unexpected side effect. I was taking it for an unrelated injury.
By wisdom1st - 11/29/2013 5:33:29 PM
@Truth and Beauty - Depo claims to have catalase and pseudocatalase.  Natural catalase will not penetrate skin, but it should bubble up when put to  the peroxide test. Bottom line, the results of a peroxide test for depo melanin cannot determine if there is pseudo catalase in the product.
By Jcoireangus - 11/16/2013 8:03:04 PM
Wow!  A lot of posts to catch up on today. 

So I've been using depo-melanin for five months now on my chin hair and temples. Really, nothing new to report. No change on the chin. I believe the temples are more salt and pepper but the degree of change is hardly worth the time or cost. 

I still do not recommend depo-melanin. I can't see a way to apply it directly to the scalp if you have hair... All the product will be soaked up by the hair and you'll end up spending too much on something that has very limited results. 

So my temples are a little less grey. And I have an odd 1/2 inch by 2 inch dark streak on one temple. Too be honest, it looks strange.  So all of this says that five months of use results in a few spots of increased pigment and a little more salt and pepper where I was mostly salt. 

This is not some kind of back handed and twisted way to convince you to use depo-melanin. It really isn't worth the time or money. But the results suggest there could be a more effective formulation out there. I have yet to be convinced that one exists. I'll continue to monitor and report here because I do think we have some honest folks here and if I
By Tom. - 10/13/2013 7:16:49 AM
I wonder about topical compounds applied to the scalp. They probably make their way into the bloodstream transdermally, however I'm not convinced that they don't cross the blood-brain barrier. It would be interesting to discover the mechanisms by which growth promoting compound effect benign, transformed cells--Cells that may be waiting for the right growth stimulus to be further transformed into cancerous tumors.  Our focus is preventative care.  If one is taking growth promoting compounds either internally or topically for a long time, one may want to consider a brain MRI scan as a preventative measure. Catch tumors early and the survival rate is much greater.

Just something to think about.

-Tom
By stefanovic - 6/25/2014 6:03:38 AM
So how would you compare melitane and melanotan? On melanotan I didn't notice a big difference in skin pigmentation when I stayed out of the sun. The combo with UV makes a type 1 actually tan like a type 3-4, but not much without UV exposure. The hair ( naturally reddish) however did change without UV exposure. The darkness depended on the dosage.
Would that mean melitane is even stronger when it comes to darkening hair - skin without UV exposure?

There are a few horror stories on melanotan, but in the end thousands of people have been using it for about ten years without any problems. You have that story of a supplier having added insulin, you have a story of a woman with a tanning saloon addiction getting skin cancer ( and she had once used melanotan for 3 weeks - so it's probably not related) and you have an obese woman with heart problems - probably not related.
By stefanovic - 4/22/2014 6:50:46 AM
@Truth and Beauty: I hope you can honestly provide us with the ingredients. Too many people take the issue too seriously over here, so I think we all deserve to get further details after you have posted those pics.


Someone mentioned the melitane with neribas over here. Well as opposed to PC we don't know if melitane only needs 5 minutes to work. Personally I would go for a practical leave on solution.
By wisdom1st - 5/19/2013 2:55:55 PM
You could be right DanRo.  The latest angle on reversal came to light in 2009.  That was the UK/Germany who offered that information to the public.  Basically, catalase breaks down hydrogen peroxide which bleaches hair from the inside out.  The cat was out of the bag, and several enthusiasts marketed oral products containing catalase, as well as shampoo's that contain it as well.   Many users of these products have claimed that they do not work.  It's possible that some may have had good results using them, but I would be skeptical.  Instead of taking these supplements, one could just load up on foods that are rich in catalase, or put the juices of these foods on their scalp.  The problem with the oral catalase is the digestive tract breaks the enzyme down, and there is no guarantee that it could make it to the hair follicles intact.  The makers of PC-KUS say that catalse will not penetrate the scalp/skin, so a synthetic product would be needed when topically applying, thus eliminating natural catalase as a topical solution.

When the news of lack of catalse came out, not only were there enthusiasts who were quick to get a product on the market, there were also other research centers at work as well.  Sometime ago, even shown on posts to this site, there was a place called EXT Life Sciences who made a claim that they would be able to get a shampoo or stay in conditioner on the market that contained catalase.  The discovery of the lack of catalase was key, and it got the ball rolling everywhere.   I cannot say for sure, but I would bet there are many labs working on some sort of topical product.  Many of these places will keep their findings under wraps.  Since it is now known that the lack of catalase sets off a chain reaction in the graying process, that is now common knowledge for everybody to use.  The trick is to get the synthetic catalase into a product that works, and is easily applied.  There may be 20 different formulas/ways of making a synthetic catalase, and there could be several labs that have already successfully achieved this.  They could still be running tests.  We don't know.  When all this information has popped up over the last 3 to 4 years, one would think a marketed product is not far off.  There is money to be made, and time is money.  And believe me, there are some people who are involved with the development of the product we are all waiting for, and they are just as anxious to get in the market as well.  
 
By Slider - 4/23/2011 10:32:07 PM
Danro

If you look at previous posts i also tried this Shiseido thing for  6 months.

No results. How can a big company like Shiseido be involved with this?
By Jcoireangus - 7/29/2013 5:57:18 AM
Hey, I'm joining you in this self experiment with Depo-melanin. This is only day 3. 

I'm focusing the experiment on my nearly Snow White facial hair. I shaved so that I have nothing but short white hairs, making application easy. 

I'm applying twice a day and spending time afterwards in the sun. 

I've done my research (and have a biochemistry background) so I'm optimistic that this could work. I've the same concerns as others. 

Also, there are several people who have been posting all over the Web about this product. I suspect they're really marketing this product and trying to generate a buz. "Kyle", who has posted on this forum is one of them...

Anyway, I'm glad to have found a group of fellow experimenters. 
By Pseudocatalase -