Life Extension Forums




Vegan or Vegetarian Fitness: Recommended Supplements & Amino Acids

Author Message
 Posted 7/25/2013 7:37:59 PM
Fan

FanFanFanFanFanFanFanFanFan

Status: Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/5/2014 6:38:31 AM
Posts: 134, Visits: 773
I'd like to eat less meat, but don't always feel good enough to work out. Basic info on veg diets suggests some will need to supplement (or eat carefully) to get enough:
. protein
. B12
. vit D
. iron
. zinc
. omega-3
. iodine
. calcium
. vitamin A
. riboflavin

I'm more worried about specific amino acids, some found mainly in meat. What aminos do I need to supplement? Taurine? Carnitine? Lysine? BCAAs? Creatine? Other?

Thanks!
Elaine


Tags:
Post #9651
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 7/26/2013 5:35:18 AM
Fan

FanFanFanFanFanFanFanFanFan

Status: Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 1 hour ago
Posts: 225, Visits: 3,517
You seem to have a good list of why NOT to become a vegan/vegetarian, most of the ones that I have known don't get the point that humans are omnivores for a very good reason. :-)

To really know what to supplement you'll need to do testing of vitamin, mineral, and amino acid panels. Everyone has genetic differences that make certain nutrients much more needed than for other people.

But as far as the above list goes you are missing at least choline.
Post #9653
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 7/26/2013 8:21:16 AM
Advocate

AdvocateAdvocateAdvocateAdvocateAdvocateAdvocateAdvocateAdvocateAdvocate

Status: Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 5:55:17 PM
Posts: 79, Visits: 1,746
I agree with calc! To add further, why would a hypoglycemic want to further complicate their life?

I would also look into Jon Barrons pea protein powder. To get off the hypoglycemic roller coaster you'll need a good source of veggie protein.
Post #9657
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 7/26/2013 10:08:29 AM
Spectator

SpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectator

Status: LE Employee
Group: Managers
Last Login: 7/1/2014 10:28:06 AM
Posts: 8, Visits: 11
Zork- Consider carnitine for one. Here's more info on nutrients to take: 

Post #9661
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 7/27/2013 9:43:49 AM
Fan

FanFanFanFanFanFanFanFanFan

Status: Wholesale Customer
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2 hours ago
Posts: 131, Visits: 1,504
My diet, most days, leans heavily towards vegan, because I live with and love some serious animal lovers. I, personally am pesceatarian (allow for eating fish--which for me involves occasional raw sushi outside the home).

Vegetarianism can be problematic if done ignorantly, but meat-eating comes with its own pitfalls: excess protein and iron intake, carcinogens from high-heat cooking, etc.

Most people who are truly dedicated vegetarians are in it for some ethical concern about eating sentient beings, not because they think they've found the perfect diet.  Insinuating that any given vegetarian are clueless because of the potential problems of doing it ignorantly is missing the point of what motivates vegetarians.  



___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Post #9665
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 7/27/2013 11:04:38 AM
Fan

FanFanFanFanFanFanFanFanFan

Status: Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 1 hour ago
Posts: 225, Visits: 3,517
Its fine to take a ethical stand not to eat animal products, those people just need to realize they are doing long term harm to their health.

I'm not sure if its even possible to do a vegan/vegetarian diet "non-ignorantly" due to the fact that its nearly impossible to get enough choline from non-animal sources. The current AI of ~ 450mg/day has also been shown in studies to be too low due to widespread genetic defects in its endogenous production and its estimated it should be closer to ~ 900 mg/day. Its hard to even get 900mg/day from animal sources without taking choline supplements which also happen to be animal derived. For example, it would take 8 large eggs per day to reach 900mg/day. It would take multiple pounds of the highest choline vegetarian foods to reach that level, which I doubt even the most die hard vegetarian would be willing to eat every day. For example, 2lb of sun-dried tomatoes or 2.5lb of flaxseed per day would reach 900mg/day.

And this is without even getting into the details of any other nutrient that is much lower in vegan food sources such as carnitine.

They are in essence denying their own genetics and evolutionary position as omnivores. Perhaps in time, when you can gm humans, being a vegetarian won't come with a tradeoff of poor health.
Post #9667
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 8/4/2013 10:24:44 AM
Spectator

SpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectator

Status: Regular Customer
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/21/2014 5:20:12 PM
Posts: 6, Visits: 151
Dr. Michael Greger's supplement recommendations are sound for avoiding overt nutrient deficiencies on a varied whole plant based diet. For most vegans, its just B-12 and D.

Mark McCarty's Low-Fat, Low-Salt, Whole-Food Vegan is a well referenced summary of the evidence in favor of vegan diets increasing lifespan and more importantly, heathspan, while his Full-Spectrum Antioxidant Therapy and Practical Strategies for Preserving Good Cognitive Function into Old Age offer plenty of suggestions of supplements with potential anti-aging effects. 

I also really like Vincent Giuliano's Anti-Aging Firewalls blog for pointers to the latest scientific hotspots and 
his schema of organizing a longevity program around multiple overlapping defenses to various aging processes. His ever updated Anti-Aging Firewalls monograph is a good pointer to supplements worth investigating.

Personally, I believe the bulk of healthspan benefit can be achieved via diet rather than supplementation. I aim for a low-protein, low-fat diet with an emphasis on green tea, cruciferous vegetables, onions/garlic, tomatoes, berries, flax, mushrooms, spices and herbs, rounding out calorie needs with low insulinemic index beans & whole grains. High in color, fiber & strong flavors, but fairly low in simple sugars, the amino acid methionine (highest in animal proteins), and proinflammatory ω-6 fats.

Additionally, I take

Vitamin B-12
Vitamin D3
Algal DHA

alpha-lipoic acid
carnosine
taurine
aspirin (low dose)

I'm planning on adding a few more Nrf2 inducing hormetins via supplement. I'm exposed to epigallocatechin gallate (green tea), sulforophane (broccoli), and curcumin (turmeric) regularly through my diet, but I'm thinking of adding silymarin (milk thistle), oleuropein (olive leaf) - I haven't decided whether capsule or powder added to the morning smoothie makes more sense here. I recommend familiarizing yourself with hormetics and how activating the body's endogenous antioxidant response element with small doses of phytochemicals is considerably more potent than supplementing with large doses of bulk antioxidants (which may be counterproductive).

Also, on my next doctor visit I plan to ask for a Rx for low-dose metformin. I have no pre-diabetic concerns, but the lifespan (animal studies) and cancer incidence benefits (in human & animal studies) of metformin as a calorie restriction mimetic are remarkable given the low cost and relatively low risk of side effects.

Tags:
Post #9766
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 8/4/2013 12:09:22 PM
Spectator

SpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectatorSpectator

Status: Regular Customer
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/21/2014 5:20:12 PM
Posts: 6, Visits: 151
Its worth noting that the current AI for choline was set in 1998 using a single study (Zeisel, SH, et al. "Choline, an essential nutrient for humans." The FASEB journal 5.7 (1991): 2093-2098.) which found 500mg/day adequate, but 13mg/day inadequate in preventing increases in liver alanine aminotransferase levels. Intermediate levels had not been examined.

There are metabolic pathways for de novo production choline from methionine and betaine. Betaine, in particular, is fairly abundant in plant foods, with wheat, spinach, and quinoa being excellent sources.

Moreover, the same group that found gut microbiota production of TMAO from carnitine a cardiovascular risk factor earlier found similar concerns with choline: Tang, WH, et al. "Intestinal microbial metabolism of phosphatidylcholine and cardiovascular risk." NEJM 368.17 (2013): 1575-1584.

Post #9768
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 8/5/2013 4:18:00 AM
Forum Coordinator

Forum Coordinator

Status: LE Employee
Group: Managers
Last Login: 5 hours ago
Posts: 1,827, Visits: 6,748
Welcome to the Forums, Sanpaku.

D Dye
Moderator
Post #9770
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 8/5/2013 5:31:21 AM
Fan

FanFanFanFanFanFanFanFanFan

Status: Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 1 hour ago
Posts: 225, Visits: 3,517
Sanpaku,

(quoting didn't work correctly, this is in response to their comment)

Yes, the original study was found to apparently be insufficient, later studies showed the needed amount to be nearly double that, ~ 900mg/day, due to the prevalence of genetic defects involving PEMT (if I remember correctly, I read the study over a year ago).

At the moment I can't track down the study where it gave a recommended increased amount of choline for intake, but searching pubmed for 'choline intake pemt' gives some interesting studies to read that seem to all agree that PEMT function plays a much bigger role than the 1998 estimates thought. The percentage of PEMT defects is higher in the US than other parts of the world as well.
Post #9772
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook


Similar Topics

Expand / Collapse

Reading This Topic

Expand / Collapse