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Coumadin, Vitamin D, Vitamin K restriction

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 Posted 5/19/2013 3:55:46 PM
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If one is on Coumadin (warfarin) and can not consume Vitamin K, what are the restrictions regarding Vitamin D?

If one supplements with Vitamin K and adjusts the Coumadin accordingly, how much Vitamin K does one need to take to consume 5000 IU D3/day?

Does Coumadin negate the positive effects of Vitamin K; is this a zero sum game?

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 Posted 5/21/2013 4:23:37 AM
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Welcome to the Forums, BlueHealer.

According to Life Extension's Michael A. Smith, MD:

People on Coumadin (who become vitamin K deficient per instructions by their doctors) and who take vitamin D increase calcium absorption but not necessarily uptake into bone (low K1 means less K2 conversion and subsequently less matrix protein activation and less mineralization of bone). The end result could be an increase in arterial calcification. So the theory goes. This is why I suggest k2 supplementation for people taking Coumadin.  Just follow INR (international normalized ratio) and make dosing adjustments.



D Dye
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 Posted 5/26/2013 5:44:33 AM
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Thank you for your response.  It is the atrial calcification that is my primary concern.  And it is my understanding that the Coumadin dose can be adjusted against a base line of consistent, standardized Vitamin K consumption to maintain optimal INR.

Is the current thinking that such consistent supplementation with K will still protect against atrial calcification even in conjunction with long term Coumadin treatment? 

By way of background to my question, my wife, who had no risk factors, suffered a stroke associated with a vertebral artery.  One vertebral artery was significantly smaller than the other and it was in this one that the stroke originated. Subsequent to the stroke, she was put on Coumadin for six months -- standard protocol for a vertebral artery dissection. Two weeks after she stopped taking Coumadin, she had a second stroke.  Fortunately, there was no permanent deficiencies from either stroke.  But now it looks like Coumadin for life.  No one wants to roll the dice with a third stroke, if avoidable!

So, while Coumadin seems to be guarding against "risk 1," my concern long term is any risk associated with calcification of this smaller vertebral artery which I am concerned Vitamin D might enhance absent K.

Prior to the strokes, she had been taking 5000 IU of D /day along with supplemental K for years.  Now, we are afraid to supplement with D in any significant way out of concern for calcification.  So, in addition to other considerations, she is, at the moment, losing the benefits of both K and D.
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 Posted 5/29/2013 4:16:23 AM
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Dr Smith replied:  That’s the hope. Of course, as a medical doctor, I would like more conclusive evidence. The statement: “…will still protect against atrial calcification” requires conclusive evidence via clinical research.

 



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 Posted 6/26/2013 9:52:28 AM
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My dad has two brothers. My dad and his younger brother both got calcification on the heart valve and needed the operation. My dad's older brother always walked 6 miles a day and then down to 2 miles a day at 85 years old. He never got the calcification........for what it is worth..........

All three brothers were not on Vit K2 supplements.............

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 Posted 3/24/2014 8:25:32 AM
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This topic also has me concerned as I have been on Coumadin for about a year and a half and I'm supplementing with 10,000 iu's of vitamin D3 every day. A few days ago DDye supplied me with a report about vitamin K and Warfarin that made a great deal of sense to me and I'm planning on working vitamin K into my daily supplements and adjust my Coumadin dose so that my blood levels remain between 2 & 3.

However, I now find I want to add Curcumin to my daily supplements and it also interferes with Coumadin but in an opposite way from vitamin K. So I guess my question is, if I keep my Coumadin dose the same can I adjust my Vitamin K & Curcumin doses and still keep my blood levels between 2 & 3?
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 Posted 3/24/2014 8:37:13 AM
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You are welcome to consult Life Extension's advisory department advisory@lifeextension.com if you are a Life Extension member, however, please keep your physician apprised of intended changes to your regimen.
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 Posted 4/27/2015 11:28:23 AM
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I take about 3k D3 daily with 40 mcg K, 1000mg calcium, 400 Magnesium. First time soon I will be seeing a cardiologist due slow pulse (mid 40's to 50's) and an irregular pulse.  Can't drink dairy products so I try to make sure bone building supplements are taken.  Should I inform the Dr. about the D3.  Not sure what kind of tests he will want me to have.  I don't smoke or drink and never used drugs.  I should be wonder women, what's wrong here.  Oh well, I need to go find my Bengay, and I don't like getting older. 
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 Posted 4/27/2015 2:18:37 PM
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I have an artificial aortic heart valve 5 years ago, which means rat poison (Coumadin/Warfarin) for life.

I was aware of Coumadin increasing calcification before I had the heart valve replaced. Here is an old link of an interview with Dr Cees Vermeer on Vit K2 calcification Coumadin, etc.

http://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/ExpertInterviewTranscripts/InterviewVermeer-transcript-vitK21.pdf

and (see Rotterdam study)

http://www.preparemd.com/supplements-vitamins-categories-information/vitamin-k2-mk7-reduced-heart-attack/

newer
http://nutraceuticalsworld.com/issues/2013-07/view_people-in-the-news/vitamin-k2-researcher-dr-cees-vermeer-honored-as-a-top-scientist

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3321262/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3430691/

The Coumadin mechanism of action is destroying vitamin K, to reduce clotting (increase Prothrombin time). It does not destroy ALL of the vitamin K.  I take 6x 45mcg low dose LEF K2 pills every morning on the hope that the remaining vitamin K will be the K2 form in the body. K2 is much more effective for making the calcium cycle work (prevent calcification) than K1.  I take a 50,000 IU vit D3 once/week in olive oil plus whatever is in (2,000 IU?) the standard dose of LEF mix 315 multi vitamins (9 per day). I check my own INR every day or every other day, adjust my dose as needed, and fax it in once/week. That has worked for 5 years.  The 6X LEF 45mcg low dose K2 has almost zero effect on my INR.  Having enough absorbable magnesium (as chloride and bicarbonate) in the blood per Dr Sircus is also vital to preventing calcification, esp the magnesium bicarbonate form.  These doctors suspect that even mitochondria may calcify inside of cells. Mag bicarbonate might be the fix.  See

http://ask.lef.org/15623/magnesium-bicarbonate-magnesium-acetate-benefits

One needs 2X to 3X well absorbed  magnesium (as chloride or bicarbonate form) as calcium to make the calcium do the right things. Most people have way too much calcium compared to magnesium, and calcify up.  Read the teachings of several doctors via the above link.  I have had four yearly echocardiograms, and so far, no calcification.  Taking LEF super omega3 fish oil (6-7 per meal) and pomegranate extract for 5-6 years before heart valve surgery. Mayo heart surgeon said my arteries were pristine, and no bypass was needed then.

I was taking 1700mg magnesium before last year, as oxide, which some say only 4% absorbs. I was on the edge of AFIB. Switching to magnesium chloride, zero AFIB, rock steady heart now. Switched to magnesium bicarbonate (via magnesium acetate that metabolizes to bicarbonate) last week. No AFIB, huge energy boost as well.  Read Dr Sircus, Dr Carolyn Dean on magnesium. Above link has references to their work.

--ghg


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