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Am I messing up my hormonal status with supplementation ??

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 Posted 7/2/2011 12:20:39 PM
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First, the baseline, one year ago, see old forum:

http://forum.lef.org//default.aspx?f=36&m=67322

  • DHEA-S 196.2 from 38.5 (+410%) (50-377)
  • Estradiol E2 12.0 from 10.6 (+13%) (11-44)
  • Testosterone 565 from 444 (+27%) (282-1101)
  • Free T (calc.) 98.6 from 72.9 (+35%) (26-167)
  • DHT 13.9 from 49.3 (-72%) (14-107)
  • Progesterone 251.6 (94-189)
  • SHBG 43 from 42 nmol/l (+2%) (14-71)

I was happy as I described there and had a theory.

I am now NOT HAPPY AT ALL of new results and my theory seems badly wrong!

Instead of normal DHEA, I tried using 7-keto as my scope was to keep normalizing DHEA-S while not interfering too much with testosterone and estrogen. As in the past, I kept using the LEF prostate support formula and continued to eat soy products for other benefits (e.g. general prostate health and BPH, cancer protection, cholesterol)

FAILED: DHEA-S drastically lowered 196.2 to 73.1 (-63%). 7-keto seems totally different from DHEA

FAILED: Estradiol sky rocketed up 12 to 39 (+225%) !!!!!!!!!!!

FAILED: Free T lowered 98.6 to 79.8 (-19%) while Testosterone lowered 565 to 559 a bit less (1%)

FAILED: DHT increased 13.9 to 17.1 (+23%)

Of course SHBG increased 43 to 52 (+21%) as well as also Progesterone and remarkably more cholesterol!

So where am I going?

Scared by the estrogen increase: should I use a strong blockers such as I3C/DIM + Chrysin or ask for Arimidex prescription?

On the positive side: no effect on PSA (at 2), libido and performances are great!

Decided to re-consult with AA doctor but you might have a suggestion ….  beside reminding me to walk the talk and not playing with hormones.



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Post #2943
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 Posted 7/5/2011 4:23:10 AM
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Keto is a metabolite of DHEA and is not DHEA.  Would you refresh us on the rest of your regimen?
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 Posted 7/5/2011 12:49:24 PM
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DDye (7/5/2011)
Keto is a metabolite of DHEA and is not DHEA.  Would you refresh us on the rest of your regimen?


Tks DDye. So that should explain why 7-keto should not affect DHEA-S right?

Here is my current regime. I do often make changes and have no time now for exact dosing (I will get to it, I stay on the low side almost everywhere).

  • LEF MIX
  • LEF Fish Oil
  • LEF R-LA
  • LEF ALC
  • LEF Super Carnosine
  • LEF Cognitex
  • LEF Vit D3 (1000IU)
  • LEF Super Ubiquinol
  • Smart City Centrophenoxine
  • LEF DMAE
  • LEF Gamma Tocopherols/Tocotrienols
  • LEF Caloric Restriction Mimetic
  • Vogel Garlic oil
  • LEF Super Zeaxanthin
  • LEF Advanced Natural Prostate Formula
  • LEF Super BioCurcumin
  • LEF Super Selenium complex
  • LEF Optizinc
  • LEF DHEA (prior to 7-keto)
  • Oenobiol (hair growth) (contains pumkin seed oil)
  • LEF L-Theanine
  • LEF Magnesium
  • LEF Endothelial Defense
  • LEF NAC
  • LEF MSM
  • LEF Mega Green Tea
  • LEF Chlorophyllin
  • New Chapter Zyflamend
  • LEF Lycopene
  • LEF K2 complex
  • Source Natural Mega Strength Beta Sitosterol
  • CellForte IP6 & Inositol
  • Source Natural Glucosamine Sulfate
  • Piracetam
  • Jarrow Probiotics
  • LEF Melatonin
  • Dragon River Cilantro extract
  • Elite Whey Protein
  • Naturade Soy Protein
  • LEF Cranmax
  • Greens mix (various, New Chapter BerryGreen, Green Vibrance, Kyo Green Energy, not regular)

 



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 Posted 7/5/2011 12:56:05 PM
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Are you replacing testosterone?
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 Posted 7/5/2011 9:44:19 PM
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No. I did a transdermal cycle in 2008 as test but reached exactly the same (good) results with the regime using DHEA and LEF prostate formula as I wrote in the old forum:

"A nice result is that while my testosterone increased to the same level I had after a 3 months cycle of transdermal supplementation w/o doing nothing special, DHT lowered and Estradiol (E2) seems in check. The only way I can explain this is the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme inhibition by the LEF formula worked to avoid conversion to DHT and yet did not cause trouble increasing too much the E2 by blocking one of the two testosterone conversion channels (I read somewhere some express concerns in using saw palmetto over long time for this reason). I also strongly suspect more potency and effectiveness in the LEF formula as it went from product no 975, 1275, 1475 and currently 1495 (I would not know how to retrieve easily the differences though).
For completeness I have also been using ketoconazole 2% shampoo 1-2x/week, pumpkin extract and tocotrienols for my hair and I think all have been shown to have some DHT interference effects."

So it is a little mystery I will try to unveil.  If i exclude the 7-keto I start suspecting having introduced soy foods in my diet (tofu, quite regularly) and also some soy protein isolate (alternating with whey) which is otherwise recommend for prostate conditions.


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 Posted 7/6/2011 4:25:12 AM
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Your own production of testosterone declines with age.  If you switch back from keto to DHEA and add some saw palmetto or beta-sitosterol, you might see your testosterone increase somewhat.  Most people who want higher testosterone levels get a prescription for it.  Regarding Arimidex, you can ask your physician about it.

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 Posted 7/7/2011 11:06:51 AM
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DDye (7/6/2011)
Your own production of testosterone declines with age.  If you switch from back from keto to DHEA and add some saw palmetto or beta-sitosterol, you might see your testosterone increase somewhat.  Most people who want higher testosterone levels get a prescription for it.  Regarding Arimidex, you can ask your physician about it.

Thank you DDye. Do you have a take adding I3C/DIM and Chrysin? Not sure I will or want to get Arimidex but will ask anyway.
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 Posted 7/7/2011 11:14:59 AM
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Chrysin may help, as may nettle http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/jan00-cover2.htm which you are getting in Natural Prostate Formula.
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 Posted 7/7/2011 11:46:29 PM
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Thank you for your time replying DDye! In the link you post, it is good to read you can test effectiveness also after a short period for time (30 days according to your study): "The results from the first pilot study showed that nine out of 10 men experienced a significant reduction in serum estradiol (estrogen) levels after only thirty days, compared to baseline."
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 Posted 7/9/2011 6:06:03 AM
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Based on my own experience and many others, I'd suggest you get entirely off of all supplements and food products containing soy.  I'm currently testing 200 mg of DIM and A-HD to lower estradial, as well.  Regular DHEA is estrogenic; 7-Keto is not.  I use 7-Keto to rev up my metabolish and lose weight; last year I lost 34 pounds and have kept it off.  You will need to take somewhere between 100 mg - 200 mg of it to see the benefit.
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