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How to reverse grey hair

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 Posted 9/22/2013 12:15:13 AM
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This thread is way too long, so forgive me if this question has been asked before. 

But, why won't taking GliSODin, SODyzme or even catalase systemically fight the hydrogen peroxide in the hair follicles?

And it seems rather disturbing if grey hair is a marker for insufficient endogenous antioxidant production.    What am I missing?
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 Posted 9/23/2013 9:48:58 AM
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brm, if you are not in the USA and interested, email pseudocatalase@gmail.com. I cannot guarantee I can help, but I can see what I can do. 

@machineghost, your questions are very insightful. Your skin epithelium has two types of cells, the keratinocytes and melanocytes. The keratinocytes produce hydrogen peroxide, and use it in an immune capacity. They kill bacteria with it. The amount of hydrogen peroxide around will vary. in people with vitiligo, the levels get quite high. Melanocytes are very sensitive to hydrogen peroxide. Even small amounts can trigger a cell death pathway because of the biochemical pathways that convert phenylalanine to tyrosine (precursor to making melanins). The natural defense against this sensitivity is catalase. A secondary backup is glutathione. It is very difficult to augment natural catalase levels. The enzyme is a large heme-containing protein with essentially zero chance of penetrating the epithelium, and there are no known oral supplements that can raise it. Glutathione supplementation can work but has not proven very effective (you would need to take N-acetyl-cysteine). The pseudocatalase penetrates well enough to disproportionate the hydrogen peroxide in the skin, which relieves the stress on the melanocytes. 

In age-related graying, certainly the natural catalase levels are relevant. But the melanocyte stem cells also respond to stress related chemicals (corticosteroids). These will cause the melanocyte stem cell to differentiate into a melanocyte, and leave no stem cells behind. Ultimately that hair follicle will go white. There is a natural replenishment of melanocyte stem cells in the hair follicles, from other stem cell types in the peripheral nerve sheaths. These, however, appear to take a long time (months) to replenish. In aging, the corticosteroid levels will rise, the hydrogen peroxide production of the keratinocytes will rise, and the rate of replenishment will go down. All factors conspire to make hair go gray. Pseudocatalase only impacts the hydrogen peroxide factor. 

Hope this helps, it is our current understanding of this issue.

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 Posted 9/25/2013 5:07:37 PM
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Pseudocatalase

Since you have vitiligo, I'm wondering if you're familiar with the clinical trials that Clinuvel (clinuvel.com) is doing on vitiligo.   They've had success here in America with their Phase IIa trial, but Phase IIb trials will be conducted in Asia - not the USA.  Their drug delivery method is via an implant.

I like how on your eBay page you say that if the user doesn't get results in 3-4 months, the protocol should be ceased.  You wouldn't hear that from other sellers. 

Will you be selling your product on Amazon where customers can rate their satisfaction with the product?
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 Posted 9/26/2013 4:28:02 AM
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stargazer2, yes, we are watching the melanocortin receptor agonist trials closely. They target the pigment cell replenishment directly, in the same way that UV light does, only without causing the damage that the UV causes. However, melanocytes are also pretty reactive cells (melanoma as an example), so side effects could be an issue. But, maybe it will work out, that would be great. It would be a huge boost for vitiligo patients. It may also result in an overall body tan, but maybe that is not such a bad thing. The pigment cell replenishment is the slowest part of the process, so you can achieve the biggest impact on the speed of results by targetting it. 

Yes, we recommend people stop using our pseudocatalase product if they don't see results in 3-4 months. It is a slow process, but not that slow! For certain, some people will not respond at all. Those people should not be using our product. All we can really guarantee is that our product will get rid of hydrogen peroxide in the skin. Many people with gray hair do see results. But, in 3-4 months, so far no one has seen full repigmentation. White becomes gray with mixed pigmented hairs, and it progresses from there. One really interesting observation is that people with two pigments of hairs (like brown and blond) have often not seen any blond for decades before the hair goes gray. Using the pseudocatalase, the blond shows up again.  We don't know how far it will go, because we anticipate that will require at least 6-8 months, and we are not that far along yet. If we do enough eBay sales we will certainly list on Amazon. Thanks for your interest. 

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 Posted 9/26/2013 2:17:33 PM
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PseudoCatalse 

You appear to be knowledgeable about the science of pigmentation loss, and I've been thinking about getting your product through Ebay. There are a few questions I have, one being from your last post. You mentioned, "For certain, some people will not respond at all."  Why are you certain? Also, 'some' is a relative word, and I could only attribute that to less than 50% with regards to your statement.  Could you give a more educated guess on the percentage of people it would not work on?  

Is the shampoo for the hair atop the head only, and the cream for everywhere else?  You mentioned to leave the shampoo in the hair for 5 minutes and then rinse.  What if you left in for an hour?  Could you give a little more detail on that subject. The shampoo is an 8oz bottle. How many applications should a consumer get out of one bottle? You said to apply twice a day.  You've stated it has already begun working on your colleagues, and they have had some reversal of gray hair.  Has there been any more progression of reversal since you first publicly posted?

Do you stand by your product 100%, and truly believe it works in reversing gray hair back to its natural color? I know you have stated that it is too early to tell if it will work to bring all pigmentation back to every follicle that has lost it, but what is your gut feeling, honestly? Nobody will hold you to it because you have not tested that far yet, but I would think these fine people in this forum would appreciate your opinion on that. Thank you for your honesty, and I for one do not feel like you've intruded into this forum. 
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 Posted 9/26/2013 3:07:34 PM
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For certain, some people will not respond at all."  Why are you certain? Also, 'some' is a relative word, and I could only attribute that to less than 50% with regards to your statement.  Could you give a more educated guess on the percentage of people it would not work on?  

So far, everyone who has tried it has responded. However, we know from vitiligo studies that extremely fair skinned people have a really hard time restoring pigment. These people have an abnormal melanocortin 1 receptor, and it doesn't signal the pigment cells to return. I suspect these people will not restore pigment in their hair if they go gray, either. And, bear in mind, when I say "responded', I mean that the person involved can see clear evidence of at least mild pigment return within the first 10 weeks or so. We generally recommend waiting 3-4 months to be safe. 

Is the shampoo for the hair atop the head only, and the cream for everywhere else?  You mentioned to leave the shampoo in the hair for 5 minutes and then rinse.  What if you left in for an hour?  Could you give a little more detail on that subject. The shampoo is an 8oz bottle. How many applications should a consumer get out of one bottle? You said to apply twice a day.  You've stated it has already begun working on your colleagues, and they have had some reversal of gray hair.  Has there been any more progression of reversal since you first publicly posted?

You can use the shampoo anyplace you have hair. On the face, some people find it nicer to use the cream (it is a moisturizer base). You could use the cream on your scalp instead of the shampoo. The pseudocatalase in them is the same and does the same thing. Shampoo users vary dramatically in how much they use, we anticipate people should get a little more than 3 months out of a bottle, and should only order more if they are seeing results. The initial progression of pigment return can be quick and substantial. Often gray becomes repigmented within 4-5 weeks. White hairs take longer (difference between mostly dead and all dead if you are a Princess Bride fan). After that initial period, however, it is a slow process, with tiny weekly changes. This is the same for pigment restoration in vitiligo, although vitiligo may be more troublesome.

Published work shows the pseudocatalase reacts to near completion with hydrogen peroxide in the skin in under 5 minutes. We don't necessarily think it is bad to leave it in, but it is effective if you rinse it out, and most people are kind of picky about what they want to leave in their hair. 

Do you stand by your product 100%, and truly believe it works in reversing gray hair back to its natural color? I know you have stated that it is too early to tell if it will work to bring all pigmentation back to every follicle that has lost it, but what is your gut feeling, honestly? 

We absolutely stand by our products being creams and shampoos that provide the most effective pseudocatalase possible. Pseudocatalase breaks down hydrogen peroxide in the skin, and these products will do that. We also stand by the statement that most people will show some restoration of hair pigment in white and gray hair. My colleague, for example, had about 85-90% white and gray hair in his facial hair in late May. It is now more than 90% fully darkened brown (in 4 months), and he is thrilled about it. His scalp hair is somewhere between a quarter and a third restored, but we had problems with our shampoo reacting with the pseudocatalase and lost the month of June, so that is more like a little less than 3 months time on pseudocatalase. We had to reformulate the shampoo carrier to avoid that happening before we were comfortable offering it on eBay. Some people will have this level of success, and we wish the best for each of our customers. But we know from other work on pigment restoration that we cannot guarantee responses for any single person.

As a post-note, I mentioned the shampoo reacting with the pseudocatalase. The pseudocatalase compound is extremely reactive, and likes to find hydroxl groups anyplace and react with them. This is the reason we recommend, that if you want a pseudocatalase product, you get one with the carrier (cream or shampoo or scalp tonic etc), and test it is active before you use it. And test again in a few weeks. 

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brm
 Posted 9/27/2013 6:52:30 AM
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@Pseudocatalase. This colleague of yours who applies your cream on his facial hair, does his skin happen to get tanned in the same time? That's a concern. Getting mélanocytes to wake up in hair enhances the activity of those in the skin around. Melanomas may be looming.

You decide to use a cream as a carrier. What about a solution whose use would be way easier. Is this a possibility. Last point: the tricky part in the supply department is manganese chloride. I'm a bit curious as to how you can obtain any of a pharmaceutical grade.

You really, really should sell your thing on Amazon to make it available to most parts of the world. 
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 Posted 9/27/2013 4:33:30 PM
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@Pseudocatalase, do you know if the person has to continue taking the product indefinitely? Or could they stop or reduce use if/when colour is restored.
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 Posted 9/27/2013 4:50:22 PM
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Pseudocatalase,You're probably aware that individuals who are Type I on the Fitzpatrick Scale respond well (skin repgimentation) to melanotan. 

I know the melanotan science isn't the same as with pseudocatalase, but does that give you any hope that your product might work for some fair skinned individuals with grey hair?  I'm a Type I/II on the Fitzpatrick.  I do tan a little. 

Incidentally, I did experiment with melanotan off the grey market years ago, and while my whiskers weren't grey, my whiskers darkened significantly very quickly (from ash / brown to dark brown / black).  This was suprising because melanotan has not been known to darken human hair.  Cheers.
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 Posted 9/28/2013 6:08:55 PM
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I did as Pseudocatalase suggested and tried adding some Hydrogen Peroxide to a few drops of Depo-Melanin (see the attached pics). It did bubble up, but not as vigorously as it does in the pics that Pseudocatalase posted of his product. Maybe it's because of the relative quantities of each that I used. 

I'm 4 weeks in to my Depo-Melanin trial. I've been applying it morning and evening consistently to hair on my head and facial hair. No changes yet, though it's too early anyhow. I will probably add Pseudocatalase's shampoo and cream to my routine. 

 IMG_2327.jpg (41 views, 19.73 KB)
 IMG_2324.jpg (25 views, 38.13 KB)
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