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Would you want to live forever?

Would you want to live forever?
Would you want to live forever?

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 Posted 3/10/2011 6:10:21 AM
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This is my 2 cents,

To those who believe our resources are limited, please take a moment to read some of the interesting theories and philosophies of scarcity versus abundance. Basically our entire world economy is based on scarcity - this is why we have a monetary system. The moment something becomes abundant, there is a paradigm shift, suddenly there is no cost attributed to it, i.e. you can't put a price on oxygen, because it is the one of the most abundant gas in our atmosphere (Nitrogen is the most abundant). The term for this new paradigm is resource based economy.

As technology improves our lives, doubling in power every year and dropping in price while at it (law of accelerating returns) we will reach a point in which the scarcity model will no longer be valid. Our society will shift from a scarcity model to an abundance model.

If you think our current resources are limited, take a moment to realize that we do not even reach the "type I" civilization of the Kardashev scale. A type I civilization has achieved mastery of the resources in a planet. In terms of resources, we're at a type 0 - we're still burning fossil fuel and coal. There is a -lot- of untapped energy sources on our planet that we haven't even begun to explore, let alone in near space.

I believe that the biggest shift we will experience yet in our lifetime will be the shift in energy sources. Once that changes and energy suddenly becomes abundant, people will begin to change the way they perceive all other resources, including food supplies, housing, and all other "scarcity-based" arguments will be addressed by technological advances.

--

References:

Resource Based Economy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource_Based_Economy

Law of Accelerating Returns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_change#Kurzweil_and_The_Law_of_Accelerating_Returns

Kardashev Scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale#Type_I

Overpopulation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation (an interesting read on the impacts of overpopulation and how the progression is slowing down in terms of birth rates, but increasing in terms of aging)


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 Posted 3/10/2011 10:20:51 AM
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Thanks for mentioning that book Tom, I like looking through old books. Here is a link where you can read Creative Mind free..

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cm/index.htm

Here is a link from a site offering a free PDF version of the book...

http://www.successmanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Creative-Mind-by-Ernest-Shurtleff-Holmes-1923-Success-Manual-Ed.-2010.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Holmes

Regarding what Tgarcia said, if energy and the basic things we need, i.e., food, shelter, clothes, etc., were as abundant as water & air, then we might be able to actually be free from the rat race. If technology could do that, like on Star Trek where you push a button and a plate of food is generated for you, then great, but how far away are we from having cheap abundant energy, let alone Star Trek technology ? 

As it stands now, we have 24 hours in a day with 8 to 10 spent working, 8 to 10 spent sleeping, 1 to 2 spent commuting back and forth to work, more time spent running various necessary errands, shopping,  & taking care of various necessities. Where is our freedom ? Where is the time for ourselves that we can pursue what we love or what we really want to do ? A hundred year lifespan might be a realistic goal for many of us right now , but how much of that time is truly our own ? How much of that time can we truly be effective  ? We can't be effective sleeping, it's just a necessary thing we have to do to rejuvenate ourselves, but other than that, it's basically a waste of time. Taking a job you don't like out of necessity is basically selling time from your life to do something you don't like. We are not going to have a society with 7 billion people who all love their jobs and love selling the better part of their day to someone else, someone running a company who gets rich and lives like a king while they just get by. We are also not going to have 7 billion business owners, everyone cannot own their own company or have jobs they find fulfilling.           

If we cannot free ourselves from this pointless rat race, I'm not sure I would want to live indefinitely. After awhile, it would be like being stuck in that movie groundhog day where everything keeps happening over and over.  The daily grind feels that way now much of the time. Today, our lives have been reduced to basically being about products and services. Our lives are spent making things, selling things, acquiring things, servicing things, or servicing each other, usually in relation to some "thing". It's too bad life cannot be about freedom and people instead of things. 
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 Posted 3/10/2011 10:33:43 AM
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so you're saying . . . thing is king.

Maybe this is why the bible warns against idolatry, if one wants to look for deeper levels that may or may not be there. 

Yet if technology improves, maybe we won't need as many actual things.  For example, one computer can replace the need for books, televisions, radios, games, CDs and many more "things."  We might not need to own as much . . . or to have those things own us.
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 Posted 3/10/2011 4:57:53 PM
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I agree Dyna, it's not so much that "things" are bad, as long as we are not slaves to them or to any specific economic system.  I think technology could free us to have more time to peruse what we love or what we really want to peruse.  Technology could free us so we have more time to simply improve ourselves.


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 Posted 3/10/2011 7:15:09 PM
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John,
Thanks for those links! I wish I had them before I typed in that paragraph text! Wink

TG,
I was mainly referring to just land mass. Look at China and how crowded they are. Unless we find a place for people we'd just be on top of one another eventually. Don't you think?

DDye, you could be right about that.  Although don't you think that even if people had a very fulfilling life, some would still have an innate desire to raise children? This innate feeling is clearly evident across types. For example, even some non-heterosexuals born with no desire for reproduction still have a innate desire to be a father or mother and raise a human being to adulthood. For all these individuals, it's almost as if child rearing is hard-wired into their DNA.  

For reproduction to cease among all human beings, the innate feelings of child rearing would somehow need to be switched off.  That wouldn't be very hard to accomplish actually. Science would need to discover the genetic code that makes those who have no desire to reproduce and/or raise children and apply that to other people, and presto, you've switched it off.

On this planet there are remote civilzations far removed from any type of future central authority where reproduction control could be caught easily. For that reason alone it would be extremely difficult to monitor.

As immortality evolved we would all probably eventually become asexual beings and even further into the future evolve into all similarly looking beings. If we were to become immortal there would be no need for gender differences.  This is probably why we always see extraterrestrial beings illustrated looking the same.

When a species evolves into the same beings, conflict of differences ends.  Compare that to our society now. Men and women are biologically separate and compatibility is a challenge. The divorce rate is higher than long-term marriage rates.  Even within sexes there are subtle differences that cause conflict. Men fight with men, woman fight with woman, races fight with other races.  To be a singular, intelligent, progressive civilization the evolution of a singular species/race would be the only way I could see total harmony on this planet.  The only other way I could see this is if science could tinker with our DNA and switch certain traits on and off (i.e. hate, greed, lust, jealousy, fear, etc.) to create harmony.

With that being said, there would still need to be some value to our physical life. I don't think we'd evolve to disregard life as easy as turning off a light switch.  Individual, consensual death wouldn't be allowed, but for those who didn't want to live forever could give the balance of their life years to another person who wished to live longer.  

In my theory for example, if the mandated age was 300 years old but you wanted to die and you were only 150 years old, you could find someone who was within 10 years of their 300th birthday and legally give your years to them.  Your life would be ended and the other person would be granted to live another 150 years.   

In order for that to be approved, the life-extended person would have prove how their extended life would be a value to society. This would be weighted against the quality of their past years.  This could be what the bible prophesied as "judgement day".

Yes, I could see the possibility of us manipulating our minds and modifying them with technology so that we evolve smarter.  But then, eventually It would appear to me that our species would evolve to a point where we'd be so highly intelligent that we'd be one with the singular intelligence of the universe.  

A microscopic view of our neuronal network looks very similar to a telescopic view of our galaxy! Coincidence perhaps? Or maybe our universe is one big neuronal network of energy. A Singular Mind

Maybe the universe is built on energy that divides much like a human cell divides. Maybe there are only so many divisions the universe can do to replicate itself without a constant energy supply to keep evolving.  

Perhaps when we die from our physical bodies, the life-force or energy that is all around us, and within us enters back into the collective sum of energy of the universe to be recycled again to form more of the universal things that need a life force energy to live.  Similar to reincarnation but without a conscience. More like energy recycling.  This could also be what the bible prophesied as God (i.e. the One Mind or Singular Energy), Heaven (i.e the collective pool of the singular energy where recycling occurs)


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 Posted 3/11/2011 10:54:49 AM
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Tom,

Lovely post and I love at how philosophical this conversation has become. On a personal note, I agree with you on your views of the universal consciousness and the oneness and totality of the cosmos within us and around us (form and formless). Teachings from Deepak Chopra, Eckhart Tolle, Fred Allen Wolf, and others have always been an inspiration and source of wisdom to me.

On a second note about China, the overcrowding you mention does happen in the larger cities. But there are entire deserted cities in China that are built in the middle of the country - it's just a matter of redistribution of population. Also, as we evolve to understand and control our environment, we would be able to colonize inhospitable places like deserts, oceans, etc, and actually be able to offer housing there. 

As technology advances toward the abundance of energy sources, travelling will become even more affordable and also available - so an ultra-high speed train could literally take you from one continent to the next. Advancements in transportation would mean you could live anywhere you wanted and work or go anywhere you would like.

That's what I hope for, anyway.


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 Posted 3/11/2011 11:23:44 AM
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Tom's discussion of the possibly of having a mandatory maximum life span reminds me of a movie I saw as a kid called "Soylent Green". Besides enforcing a maximum lifespan, they added another twist that was gruesome.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/

Another thing to consider when discussing increasing lifespan is what are the odds of having a fatal accident over time ? I don't have solid statistics at hand at the moment but I remember reading once that even if we stopped the aging process and curred all disease, we would likely die of a fatal accident sometime before our 400th birthday.  

Consciousness itself is interesting to me because it seems a human brain must be more than the sum of it's parts to produce consciousness. All matter is made of atoms and while you have different atoms for different elements / materials, all atoms are made of the same particles, i.e., protons, neutrons, and electrons. You could break it down even further all the way to string theory if you want, but we are basically made from subatomic particles (the same  particles all other matter in the universe is made of).

Take a look at one single atom, how could this one atom produce consciousness ? Yet when you put a bunch of them together to form a brain, somehow consciousness is produced from things that as singular units, do not seem capable of producing consciousness. Furthermore, an atom by itself is basically just an inanimate object and yet when you combine them, you get life and consciousness.

Consciousness, life, and death, may not be what we presently understand them to be.
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 Posted 3/11/2011 3:19:17 PM
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Hi Syntax,

On the one hand, more people means more minds and the possibility for more creativity and more solutions to problems. On the other hand, more people can amplify problems as you pointed out.  Even though more people can mean more minds to provide solutions, when people are bogged down with the daily grind, how much time do they really have for applying their creativity to make the world a better place ? How much energy & motivation do they have left for such things after a long hard day's work ?

The INTERNET would seem to provide an excellent way for the worlds people to communicate and brainstorm for solutions to all sorts of problems, but so far, I don't really see it being used in this way to any great extent. Television could be used much more for the benefit of society as well, but it's just basically used to sell us things or at least they think they are selling us things. Does anyone really pay any attention to commercials anymore ?

It is obvious that the media tries to shape our views and influence what and how we think.    

Regarding your point about the drivers license, creating a human being is certainly far more profound than driving a car, yet no one has to qualify themselves to create a life. I think it would be impossible to keep people from "having sex without a license". 

I firmly believe the technology already exists to produce life`s essentials for most if not all people now alive in ways that can free all of us from the mind numbing tasks once required to do so.



Working on an assembly line might well be considered mind numbing to many people. If the technology exists to really free us, where is it ? Do you think the elite are suppressing technology and/or discoveries to maintain the status quo?


You mentioned a better way of governing ourselves. One reason the system does not work as good as it should is just because of the dark side of human nature. Corruption, greed, dishonesty, price fixing, unscrupulous business practices, a general lack of morality & respect for people, totally self centered attitudes, and the list goes on.  Power and wealth have been handed down through generations and the elite want to hang onto their wealth and power at all costs. Still, to me, it seems the system should be working better than it is, something just seems a bit off to me, but I can't really put my finger on it and I don't really subscribe to any conspiracy theories, it's just a feeling I have.
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 Posted 3/11/2011 10:53:53 PM
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Maybe we are nothing more than just energy having human experience.  

TG,
I agree there is still allot of places we could inhabit, but eventually, we will run out of space.  And if we were immortal, we could no longer use the excuse "Ah, it won't happen in my lifetime so why bother!"  Yes it will, because you'll be immortal!  Unless of course there was a mandated age than we could still use that excuse.

I feel we are burdened with your physical bodies. Like a belabored camel weighted down with heavy packs lumbering across a scorched desert. How would it feel to be free without the need to eat, breath, drink, sleep?  Imagine no pain of joints, no organs failing.  

But if we started as energy, we wouldn't be conscience of ourselves we would just be energy.

But as John pointed out, without the merging of matter to form things, the energy is simply energy.  Much like a light bulb is only things put together—glass and wire a bit of metal threads. Only until electricity is added will it become a light bulb.

I don't think heaven as we are taught to believe is a place we consciously go, and live.  Yes, it is a place we go to but as energy.  The beauty of this concept of a singular mind, or singular energy, is that it's always creating for the greater good. It makes out of itself everything, and therefore everything is IT.  

Therefore if this singular energy is all that there is, there is no other.  The concept of duality (i.e. good/evil) is false. In this context, the concept and belief of duality has been the downfall plaguing humankind for centuries.  We blame the bad part of this duality for the things that go wrong in our life. We blame the good part of this duality for things that go right in our life.  Where is our responsibility in all of this?

What we should be doing is looking into ourselves. Because for there we will find the answer because if the concept of a singular mind or energy is true, we just need to use our own minds to connect to it.  Through it we can manifest everything we need. We could even connect to each other on a sub-conscience, unaware level, that could bring things or people into our life.

I think this is what meditation and prayer is. Connecting to the One Mind or Singular Energy and using it as a tunnel or gateway to connect to all human kind.

Take a look at this and tell me what you think the future holds:

Moving objects with brainwave-reading

Mind power allows disabled to take a virtual stroll


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Seize every opportunity to put your best foot forward.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything
If everything seems under control you're just not going fast enough. - Mario Andretti
You can't expect to do business today, with yesterday's tools, and be in business tomorrow. - Author Unknown
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Post #1793
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 Posted 3/14/2011 6:10:39 AM
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There really isn't much "matter" when you look into it.  We are energy. 

But, knowing that, one still has to chop wood and carry water, at least at the moment. 

(Wonder if that old saying is really about digestion/physiology . . . )
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