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L-Carnosine 7g Muscle Twitching

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 Posted 6/2/2014 7:42:03 AM
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Hi there I have been reading that the recommended dosage for Carnosine is something around 500mg.  I have been taking L-Carnosine 4.5g for a while and have had no problems with it but I wanted to up the dose to 7g.

After upping the dose to 7g a day, I have started getting some slight muscle twitching but no other effects as yet.  I was wonder if anyone else is on any megadoses (which I assume this is) and experiences this?  Does it go away.  I am thinking of waiting but if it doesn't go away then I will reduce the dosage for safety reasons.   I am 6ft 1 and I am 100kg.    

I have to say that this is organic and I have done extensive research on this and I have not been able to find any reasons for the dosage to be at 500mg other than economic ones, although some doctors say anything from 100mg-1500mg without reasons with all indications that they just don't know.  Does anyone know what reasoning there is to have the dosage at 500mg?  I found a couple of doctors saying that it is organic and the body should break it down and said that even up to 100g was safe.  However, I do extensive checking on all supplements I take to ensure safety ofcourse :-)



Many thanks for your help in advance :-)  Please feel free to ask any questions in case I might know the answer too.  Cheers.

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 Posted 6/2/2014 8:06:59 AM
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Welcome to the Forums, Robin.

Life Extension has suggested 1 gram per day as an amount necessary to overcome carnosinase degradation http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/jan2011_Carnosine-Exceeding-Scientific-Expectations_01.htm . One animal study showed carnosine to be safe at doses above 500 mg/kg body weight.1

Muscle twitching can be a sign of approaching toxicity associated with other compounds, so it would be a good idea to reduce the dose.

1. Quinn PJ, Boldyrev AA, Formazuyk VE. Carnosine: its properties, functions and potential therapeutic applications. Mol Aspects Med. 1992; 13(5):379-444.


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 Posted 6/3/2014 1:13:04 PM
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Hi Ddye,

Thank you for your swift response and for informing me of the potential danger.  I also consulted a doctor and they said that the best course of action to be totally safe is to reduce the dosage.

I would also say to other people reading this to be careful about using 7g just because I have, I think you should take it seriously when using dosages which are not normally used.  Everyone is different and some people have reported issues with a little as 1000mg.  Another thing is that although mice are similar to us they are not totally the same so please be careful when considering animal studies as evidence.

Cheers
  
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 Posted 6/4/2014 9:15:41 AM
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Hi Robin,
I was just curious on why you fel the need to increase your dosage from 4.5g to 7g.
4.5g is already greatly above the normal dosage.
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 Posted 6/7/2014 6:22:49 PM
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Hi Ross,

I am glad someone asked that! 

I read an article which said how the correct dosage should depend on the person and not just be a flat 500-1500mg.  According to what I read, sometimes a large amount is needed for it to work properly and it is very different for each person.  I am not certain of the science behind it so I will not mention anything.  I am quite heavy (100kg ish) so I thought that a larger dose may be required.  It made a lot of sense to me at the time of reading what I read.

I have come to the conclusion that the muscle twitching is likely due to the fact that I have a tendency to anxiety.  It seems to be much worse when I have a deadline looming etc and I am getting all the usual signs of anxiety plus that.  Unfortunately, my muscles seem to have become very large due to alanine from the carnosine I think (not that bad but I would prefer a more slender image in my job). I assume this enables the anxiety to twitch the muscles.  However, I may be wrong.  

I also think that in such high doses it is also a good idea to look at symptoms of higher doses of beta-alanine and histidine, as I believe a very large amount of the carnosine you take is converted into these two.  With 7g, I read somewhere (I would double check the figures) that 40% is converted to beta-alanine (2.8g), a dosage which is often taken by body builders (0.8-6.4g daily).  I am not sure how much is converted into histadine but there have been trials where 4g showed no side effects.  Beta-alanine has shown no negative side effects in human trials that I could find.  There was an often quoted trial on cats on a dosage which showed very negative effects on the brain.  I worked this out to be the equivalent of 30g of alanine if the cat was the same weight as me.  But all the human trials I have found have shown no effects but these were not very long term trials (only over a few months).  The cat trial is enough to make me monitor developments of beta-alanine very carefully, although it is a very popular supplement in the sports industry.  

I also am aware that not that many people take carnosine in the amounts that I do, but I think some of the carnosine gets into your blood stream without getting separated into its constituent parts (f I am understanding it correctly) and if you are taking larger doses you would have to be aware that that might have some unknown effect.  To be nonest, I think that you could find possible negative situations for all sorts of different naturally occuring foods given enough time.  The reason these things are not illegal is that picking one naturally occuring supplement off the shelf at random, you are in no more danger than if you eat a lot of the same type of food.  Just don't go crazy with your dosages.    I have even seen some doctors saying that you can take up to 100g, it doesn't matter.  As far as I am concerned, I think these supplements are great for the aging process, as I am sure you have noticed, but it won't stop the decline of the body altogether, in a few years I will stop that dose, which will also limit the possible long term side effects.  
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 Posted 6/24/2014 4:20:20 PM
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Hi Robin - 
At that high a dose, do you notice any anti-glycating properties of the carnosine, such as a reduced HbA1C test results
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 Posted 6/29/2014 1:20:41 PM
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Hi Kench,

I have not actually run that test so I am not sure.  I read somewhere that there are some future trials registered for diabetes if that is what you are interested in.  They are for much higher doses of up to 140g which I personally would think a lot before taking as histidine (breakdown product) might cause problems at that dose ( I don't know though but toxicity is considered high risk for histidine at that level I read).  I think don't quote me on that one.  There are probably other trials for diabetes already out there?  I would be interested in reading them if you know of any?

I also think it matters a lot if you take the daily dose in one lot or if you spread it out.  For many of the benefits of carnosine, I strongly suspect that taking in split doses is more ineffective but I would also recommend building up dosages slowly.  I believe that too much alanine in the blood too quickly can cause paresthesia and taking such a large dose of carnosine may cause that (its harmless but some people will freak out if they aren't expecting it).

With regards to the twitching again it is anxiety I think but i wonder if it's a mineral deficiency or something (magneisum?) which is causing it to not be stable when adrenaline is in the blood.  I am monitoring for signs on taurine deficiency and lots of other potential issues plus will cycle the supplement with biweekly rest days.   it  A doctor said it was not serio
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