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new molecule to switch off appetite found - sodium acetate

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 Posted 5/27/2014 3:24:25 AM
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Magnesium acetate seems to work also.  In small quantities, it is much more expensive than sodium acetate. I got some ACS reagent grade for about $75/lb.  Googling bulk prices (ton quantities), sodium acetate is $.30-.50/lb, and magnesium acetate is about $1/lb. Something called "CMA" is used in bulk for ice melting. CMA is a mixture of calcium and magnesium acetates.  CMA is obviously not food grade, but just to point out that the manufacturing capacity is in place.

Eating magnesium acetate crystals (tetrahydrate form), tastes awful (metallic and aftertaste), so the best route would probably to put it into a pill. If 1/3 TSP is dissolved in a glass of water, the taste tolerable to me, but the taste is not as "good" as sodium acetate.  Since most people could always use more magnesium, I would guess that is form of the acetate is "better" for most people.  I wonder, since magnesium acetate, ends up with the acetate ion getting into the brain, would the magnesium ion also get into the brain/nerves as well (ala magnesium L-threonate, which I also take)?

The weight is coming right off.

--ghg
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 Posted 5/30/2014 6:44:54 AM
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I need a good appetite suppressant and I like what I've read in this topic. I plan to give it a try as it's cheap and I drink lots of water all day every day. Just thought I'd post the following link for anybody wanting to check drug interactions and side effects of sodium acetate. I didn't see anything that would stop me from giving it a try, but it was a lot of reading and I just skimmed through it. 

http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/sodium-acetate.html


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 Posted 5/30/2014 10:22:54 AM
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More tidbits on acetates.

MSDS sheets for most if not all of sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium acetates state "loss of appetite" on ingestion.  Calcium acetate is used as a drug (Phoslo) to reduce serum phosphate in end stage kidney failure patients.  The calcium apparently binds to phosphates in the GI tract, forming calcium phosphate, thus reducing their blood serum levels.  The calcium phosphate is passed with the feces. Many adults need 3-4 pills per meal. Each pill is 667 mg of calcium acetate. Patients usually have blood calcium and phosphate levels monitored with blood tests.

Calcium acetate is also added to flour at bakeries to control bread mold, as a leavening agent, for firming, and as buffering for acidity control, and calcium fortification. Typically 0.2-0.5% of flour weight is used.

I would think that alcohol in the blood, would cause appetite suppression since it metabolizes into acetate, but when one is drunk, they may not notice the appetite suppression???  As for beer bellies, I wonder if that is more attributed to the pretzels, chips, or pizza that is consumed with beer?  One usually ingests the above, before the alcohol has metabolized to acetates to do much suppression of the current meal.

I am still doing well with sodium acetate. I too lazy to even dissolve it in water. I just break off a couple of "pea" sized chunks, chew and swallow.  Like "strong" vinger/salt chips.  The amount is roughly 1/3-1/2 TSP, maybe twice per day now.. seems constant now, unlike day 1.  Since almost all of my "raging hunger" used to occur right after eating a small breakfast, such as an apple + LEF whey protein + LEF fish oils, I take most of the sodium acetate then.  I then do a "touch up" pea sized chunk after lunch, and that takes care of hunger for the rest of the day. Supper is usually a raw tomato + some cheddar.  I have read that sodium acetate is metabolized to bicarbonate in the liver, and thus helps reduce metabolic acidity just like taking small amounts of sodium bicarbonate.

A few friends are using it also, with good results too.

--ghg
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 Posted 5/30/2014 8:15:04 PM
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Alcohol tends to increase calorie consumption when consumed with a regular diet, even more so in the presence of a high-fat diet ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8599309 ).

Alcohol will halt the body's fat-burning while it is being metabolized. ( http://muscleevo.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/alcohol.gif?fd8275 )

Acetate as a byproduct of alcohol seems to be part of the driver there, because acetate is burned preferentially by the body before fat, sugar, protein. ( http://muscleevo.net/alcohol-weight-loss/#.U4lgr3LtMy1 )  

It's also been shown that long-term alcoholics getting most of their calories from alcohol tend to have a strong disconnect from their appetite, often suffering from malnutrition and reduced body weight.   ( http://www.livestrong.com/article/86805-effects-alcoholism-appetite/ )

So, what is going on here?
Perhaps acetate triggers satiety only while simultaneously calorie-restricting?

At any rate, I think I'd like to cautiously experiment with sodium acetate a bit more, good to hear the testimonial on your success with it, ghg; and of course, wise advice from DDye, while battling that appetite, be grateful you are healthy enough to have one.



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 Posted 6/2/2014 8:14:49 AM
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More thoughts on acetates.

For a few years, I took about 1/2 TSP of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and a gram or so of potassium bicarbonate once or twice a day, and tested urine with pH paper, to hold a pH of about 6.5.  (It goes to pH 5 acidic if no bicarbonate) in order to counter excessive acids resulting from metabolism.

This turned out to dissolve kidney stones.  I have some calcium oxalate "fragments" (2mm or less), 18 or 20 of them left over from lithotripsy in 1981..  Watched them for years.. never changed.. These were fragments from the original busted up stones that got trapped in nooks and crannies in the kidneys.  Those all just vanished when checked 6 months after starting sodium bicarbonate.

I also ended up with a giant calcium phosphate stone, (took too much calcium at the time), didn't even feel it.  It started to dissolve when taking the sodium bicarbonate, dropped down in the kidney, plugged the output, pressurized and kidney, cut into the kidney, and pumped urine into the blood, starting instant sepsis.  Made a mess out of me in 2010.

Since sodium acetate appears to metabolize into sodium bicarbonate in the liver, it is possible that sodium acetate might also dissolve calcium oxalate and calcium phosphate stones as well.  Probably no issues if it is a small stone, but if it is a big one, then dissolving it might cause issues when it partially dissolved.  Sodium acetate brings my urine pH up to 6.5-6.8 range without taking sodium bicarbonate.  Magnesium acetate has little if any effect on urine pH.

--ghg


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 Posted 6/3/2014 8:41:57 AM
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It is well known in the research, that taking a tablespoon or so of vinegar (5% acetic acid) with a starchy meal greatly reduces the postprandial (after meal) glycemic response (lowers the effective glycemic index) of the starch.  Starch, especially Amylopectin-A, found in white bread, and pizza crust, converts to glucose almost immediately, resulting in a large blood glucose and insulin spike.  The resulting insulin spike causes the high glucose to become stored as fat.  When vinegar is present, the rate of conversion of starch, especially Amylopectin-A, into glucose is greatly slowed down, resulting in the elimination of the insulin and glucose spikes, and thus limiting glucose to fat conversion, that normally happens during the spiking interval.

Other weak organic acids tested have not shown this property of slowing down starch digestion, only acetic acid seems to do this.

Since acetic acid probably converts into sodium acetate as soon as it leaves the stomach, could it be the sodium acetate is also responsible for the slowing down the starch digestion as well?

I will try to take some sodium acetate with a meal and check postprandial glucose.  Also, acetate taken with a meal, might not eliminate hunger, since other posters have mentioned that if acetate is present when food is eaten, it may be digested before the just eaten food, and cause more of the just eaten food to convert to fat.

Studies have shown, that the more vinegar taken, the more the postprandial metabolic improvement that happens. It is impractical to take much more than a TBSP of vinegar, dissolved in a glass of water, due to bad taste, excessive acidity.  Since vinegar is only 5% acetic acid, taking 1/2 TSP of sodium, magnesium, or other acetate is probably equivalent to drinking a whole pint of vinegar, and in theory, should elicit a larger postprandial glycemic improvement.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16015276

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/1/281.full

http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/1711-effects-of-acetic-acid-vinegar-on-glycemic-and-insulinemic-response-to-food-inhibitory-effects-o




--ghg


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 Posted 6/17/2014 3:44:03 AM
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Update after six weeks.

I have lost approx. 18-20 lbs in six weeks since starting sodium acetate.  After about one month, my body seems to have become accustomed to reduced caloric intake.  Several days, I have not needed to consume any sodium acetate at all. Some days, a pea size chunk will do it.  This is much less than 1/3-1/2 TSP.  I heard a story about an obese woman who drank lots of vinegar.  She became thin and stayed that way for the rest of her life.  Since there is a good chance that vinegar just converts to sodium acetate as soon as it hits bile, this may be related.

Just got a call from my Doctors office, and they noted that my blood sodium was slightly LOW! (no snacks, cut out a bunch of sodium and nasty omega-6s)




--ghg


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 Posted 6/17/2014 4:13:51 AM
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There are some home remedy books published during the previous century that touted drinking apple cider vinegar. Maybe that's why.

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 Posted 6/17/2014 3:26:04 PM
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ghg2, thanks for bringing this up. . .  I've managed to bring my body fat percentage down by 2% since adding only 200 mg. daily acetate and more inulin fiber (acetate-yielding prebiotic) to my regimen.


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 Posted 6/18/2014 4:57:50 AM
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Regarding my previous post, just received this:

Old-fashioned remedies: Calming blood sugar spikes withapple cider vinegar

Want to hear a little Healthy Talk? Justtune in to Dr. Michael Smith's talk show on www.RadioMD.comat 3 p.m. this Thursday,June 19. You'll learn about new studies that have revealed away to possibly reduce the blood-spiking effects of simple sugars, usingold-fashioned apple cider vinegar!


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