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HaHa: Vegetarians Less Healthy

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 Posted 5/20/2014 3:29:02 AM
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Hi Tom.

having been to Crete twice on my own I can testify that neither salomon nor avocados have been traditional part of their diet.


Regarding the creation of the label "Mediterranean diet" one should keep in mind that ,according to Nina Teicholz:


"The Mediterranean Diet originated from a survey of the eating habits of long-living Cretan peasants in the 1950s, who seemed to eat very little meat or dairy. However, they were surveyed shortly after WWII, when their economy was in ruins. Also, their diet was sampled during Lent, when animal foods were severely restricted. The data was therefore not any good and never grew any better. In fact, the reason that the Mediterranean Diet became celebrated and famous is that researchers fell in love with the sun-kissed, enchanting Mediterranean—and most of their studies and travel were funded by the olive-oil industry"

Source : http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2014/05/surprise-fat-is-good-for-you/


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 Posted 5/20/2014 4:45:24 AM
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Tom, that was in response to "People who do not eat animal products because of ethical reasons are nuts."  :-)

 


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 Posted 5/20/2014 2:18:35 PM
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Sorrento (5/20/2014)
Hi Tom.

having been to Crete twice on my own I can testify that neither salomon nor avocados have been traditional part of their diet.


Regarding the creation of the label "Mediterranean diet" one should keep in mind that ,according to Nina Teicholz:


"The Mediterranean Diet originated from a survey of the eating habits of long-living Cretan peasants in the 1950s, who seemed to eat very little meat or dairy. However, they were surveyed shortly after WWII, when their economy was in ruins. Also, their diet was sampled during Lent, when animal foods were severely restricted. The data was therefore not any good and never grew any better. In fact, the reason that the Mediterranean Diet became celebrated and famous is that researchers fell in love with the sun-kissed, enchanting Mediterranean—and most of their studies and travel were funded by the olive-oil industry"

Source : http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2014/05/surprise-fat-is-good-for-you/


Hi Sorento,

That may be true I don't know since neither you nor I were alive during old world Crete.  Regardless though, today the diet is an adaptation, while staying true to the core principles.  I'm sure sea salomn swam by, and they may have occasionally consumed them. The point is they ate sea food, which could be many sea foods. Avacodos are a good souce of fat much in line with olive oil so I can see how that may have been adoped.  I think if one studies the traditional Crete diet, one will have the insight to know what is off base or not.  I can see how the researchers fell in love with the place as it is very beautiful.

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 Posted 5/26/2014 3:43:16 PM
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There is something ridiculously wrong with the original study posted. Vegetarians have a 50% higher risk of cancer??? Is anybody buying this? This flies in the face of almost every serious study I have seen, which show about a 15-20% reduced risk of cancer. Also (from the study published on Plosone) meat eaters who consumed lots of fruit and vegetables had far higher rates of cancer than those who did not? Really?

Without poring over the study in detail, I can suggest that maybe the sample size is too small (1320 people in each group, which could make for a fairly small number of cases of cancer). I don't see any P value or 95% confidence interval calculated, so there doesn't seem to be any indication that these numbers are statistically significant.

Below is a much larger study (69.000 people) that shows an 8% benefit for vegetarians and a 16% benefit for vegans. Of course this isn't the last word on the subject either, but it's much more consistent with everything that is known about diet.
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/22/2/286.short

As a former vegetarian, I would be the first to admit that there may be vitamins or nutrients that are not supplied in a vegetarian diet as derived from the standard western diet. Vitamin B12 and either EPA or DHA (I forget which) come to mind. Too many vegetarians rely on pasta and carbs for calories. But the obvious glee with which this garbage study is being received is ludicrous.
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 Posted 6/1/2014 11:44:20 AM
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Vegetarianism is a nutritional fad that has driven the human need for food to its most extreme form of eccentricity. Habitual vegetarianism is eccentric because, it is insufficient in providing the Human organism with a complete source of health-renovating bodily nutrients such as vitamins, minerals, proteins, phospholipids, phyto-chemical, and bio-flavonoids. Per the theory of evolution, we were supposedly born of "cosmic dust;" per the Holy Bible, still, the good Lord, our Creator, made us "from the dust of the ground of the earth." Thus, either way, we are a form of energy, albeit, in physiological organic embodiment, that must also submit to the Law of Transformation of Energy, the first law of which being the Law of Conservation; and the second law of which, being, the Law of Entropy. Thus, all energy systems, including the Human organism, operate by the Laws of Thermodynamics. There must be an organized and ordertly energy transformation "through-put structure" characterized by a beginning (input), and operational duration (process), and a resulting product (output). Consequently, our human organism undergoes continuous forms of energy transformation that participate within the greater principle INPUT-PROCESS-OUTPUT, typifying the operation of all thermodynamically-based energy systems. Since our bodily organism is atuned to our earthly ecological environment, the organic energy we need for life-sustaining operation comes therefrom as "foodstuffs," such as plants/vegetation, meats/sea foods, fruits/citrus, legumes/beans, nuts and grains, and roots/foliage. From such "foodstuffs," our body's digestive/metabolic energy consumption system extracts life-sustaining nutrients as delineated above. Foodstuffs are overlapping in nutrient content; for example, nuts might have proteins, oils, vitamins and minerals, and other nutrients also shared and provided by other kinds of foodstuffs, such as vegetables, meats, and fruits. The point of the foregoing expose is to demonstrate the insufficiency of "vegetarianism," in providing a complete nutient signature to the necessary nutritional habits platform that results in keeping human beings alive, healthy, illness-and-disease free, and  without vitamin or mineral deficiencies that might compromise immune system optimumal response for neutralizing "free radicals" and environmental "toxins." Conclusively then, the human organism, being so dependent upon the chemical content specific to each particular kind of ingested foodstuffs originating from the ecology whence we were also created, as required by our necessities for proteins, vitamins, minerals, phospholipids, bio-flavonoids, phyto-chemicals, and other substantial nutrients, must consume a wide variety of forms of foodstuffs, as diverse and variegated, as complex and enriching, as the good Lord has made available to us all on this life-giving water planet. For example, animal/vegetable/mineral sources of nutrients constituting the diverse and variegated foodstuffs humans eat, all, contain the four basic chemical elements: Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon and Nitrogen, which together play a substantial role in keeping our body's hemostatic, electrolytic, neurotransmitter, metabolic, and hormonal energy systems in healthy functioning order. "Vegetarianism" is extremely insufficient for good health-keeping living order, and thus it must give way to a regular nutritional regimen that is all-inclusive of meats/sea foods, vegetables/plants, and fruits/nuts/grains, water/juices/milk/eggs etc..., whic, together, form a more comprehensive wellspring of life-sustaining, nutrient-giving, and nutrition-enriching, lifelong good health.

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 Posted 6/2/2014 4:13:34 AM
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Welcome to the Forums, Forgiven Builder.

Am not in agreement with your philosophy, but thank you for sharing your thoughts and adding to the discussion.

D Dye
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 Posted 6/12/2014 5:49:51 AM
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 Posted 6/12/2014 6:52:43 PM
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Carnitine might just be the operative factor with stroke reduction. I'm suggesting this only because of the tremendous influence acetyl-l-carnitine has been demonstrated to have regarding preventing and treating strokes.  At any rate, meat cooked with high heat and also red meat tend to be negative factors in the diet outweighing positives.


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 Posted 6/13/2014 4:25:25 AM
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Getting enough protein is important for anyone. Vegetarians can use protein powders; ovolactovegetarians usually consume enough eggs and dairy, in addition to beans, legumes and grains, to be protein sufficient.

Carnitine is made in the body from lysine, but some believe this amount is not optimal. Acetyl-L-carnitine has had good results in a number of areas, including apparently rejuvenating old animals according to Bruce Ames' research.

Since the full text of this study http://www.neurology.org/content/early/2014/06/11/WNL.0000000000000551.short?sid=f692258f-9c69-4163-bd03-e87e63553c89 is not freely available it is not possible to evaluate the authors' discussion of the findings without ordering the article. My first thought was that protein, along with vitamin C, is needed to build and maintain strong blood vessels, however, a few studies on medline reported that stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats born to protein-restricted mothers had a greater rise in blood pressure in response to sodium.

From the accompanying editorial:  "The grain study population was small, and ... this could have been a factor for the inconsistent result."

"Therefore, labeling animal protein completely as beneficial is not helpful until more data are available."


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 Posted 6/22/2014 4:53:30 AM
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From Marilyn vos Savant's column in today's Parade magazine:

Bill Walker in Boston writes:

Which diet is more healthful, the omnivore diet or the vegetarian diet?


Marilyn responds:

Both diets can be healthful for adults, but humans are naturally omnivores, and a healthful omnivore diet is much easier to maintain than a healthful vegetarian diet, which requires serious research, understanding, and careful ongoing attention. I doubt that vegetarian diets can be healthful for children.
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